Sorry to the OP for the derailment, I hope to get back on track after responding to this post about the Chinese issue.
And Brad, not to be argumentative, just discussing.
Same here...and Talkbass is all about the derail.
Rather than jingoist, I am rather a nationalist in the Kennedy mold: “Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.”
Tell that to big business... they started the trend towards outsourcing. Can't put that genie back in the bottle very easily. IMO we should've had stiff tariffs in place to level the playing field. I guess they didn't care about a middle class with less buying power and would make it up in sales from elsewhere. Some people made money and screwed the USA.
The manner in which China treats its citizens bothers me. The image of the guy front of the tank in Tiananmen Square stays with me. And that US companies are doing business with a totalitarian regime - meaning with an oppressive government - bothers me.
It bothers me too. Again, genie... bottle.
Talking about quality - I don't agree with the notion about "at any price or quality point." Evidence does not bear this out. What evidence does bear out, however, is that Chinese goods are inferior to those made in the West across the board, and especially that the people who work in China are not paid well and are mistreated. You mentioned Apple; are you forgetting about the suicides at Foxxcon?
No it doesn't. I don't know if that's wishful or whatever. Name a better competitive US TV than Samsung? Phil Jones Bass builds their products in China. Where would you rate their quality?
Now the Foxxcon thing is truly puzzling. Suicides has what to do with quality? And no, I'm not trying be insensitive... one thing has nothing to do with the other in the scheme of this conversation. And there are plenty of US citizens who no longer have manufacturing jobs. I have no stats on how that affected them, I doubt if it was good overall.
As for Samsung - they are Korean. South Korean. As are LG, Kia and Hyundai. Those are free republics.
Might want to refresh your data... particularly if you think they have no Chinese presence. My Samsung phone was made in China... I just checked.
Having brought up Korea, would you put a Korean bass (Schecter, for example) up against a Squier Affinity? I have owned several of both, and would not. And I love Korean basses, btw.
Bad analogy. I wouldn't buy either for personal reasons. Having said that, I'd pick whichever played and sounded like I want. Country of origin would not be a factor. Are they both the same style? Same price? And so on.
Yes, it is a global world and a global economy. How's that working out for us? Well-paid skilled-labor jobs are fewer and fewer. If all of the manufacturers brought their plants back to the US, how many of us would like to work in one? I know I would.
Did I say ot was working well for us? There's no reason to read between any lines, I said exactly what I wanted to say. Painting China as you did was both myopic and jingoistic and ignores reality IMO. I think that there are people who've come up with good ideas in China that were not stolen from the US brain trust. I have a serious problem with your slant on that.
There are some of us who would argue low price over anything, but I think companies like GK and MESA are showing us that goods can be made in the US and remain price-competitive.
I've put my MIC Bugera Veyron Mosfet up against these and most other amps. The low price is icing on the cake.
Still, there is a much larger price to be paid: In the news recently we see much about Chinese military aggression. That is happening because they now have the money to improve their military. What I mean is, there is a much, much larger price to be paid for the "luxury" of cheap goods.
There always has been. I hated the fact that we gave our manufacturing base away. I mean it seriously pissed me off because in my mind it was stupid and based on greed, screw the long term effect on the country and the middle class. I just turned 60, I've seen what's been going on for a long time. I worked in tech, not manufacturing, back then. I remember when we built things. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
So no, I don't like how things panned out. I know what's not in my control.... and I deal with it. Heck, you can buy direct from China on ebay if you want. I don't like the Chinese businesses that ignore IP but they all don't do that. And I know lots of people have no clue how any this works. For instance they think inexpensive basses are built by CNC in China to save money.
Be well.
ps: Brad: I am from your part of the world. Next time you are in Chuck's say hello to Tod for me. I was his bassist in the early 80's. If you tell him about this exchange, he will know who I am.
You too. I was at the store yesterday, we put up a video of a guitarist testing our new guitar cab. Made in Virginia
. What's your name?
