Wasn't thinking of the Walter's Jimmy, ya got me there. As far as self loathing, meh, some would call that keeping ones ego in check, more of a realist really. Overall big picture takes precedence over ones small part of it.
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OK, What's the Final Verdict on Class D?
- Thread starter Bongolation
- Start date
Wasn't thinking of the Walter's Jimmy, ya got me there. As far as self loathing, meh, some would call that keeping ones ego in check, more of a realist really. Overall big picture takes precedence over ones small part of it.
And, we're all entitled to our opinions. I simply offer the following observations:
1) Listen to the mix of the original tune (whatever genre) on the juke and rank the presence of the voicing in the mix. Aside from guitar solos, you will find in most cases in order of decreasing presence: vox, snare, bass, the rest. The snare is there because it plays a key role for the backbeat and sets up the groove. In Jazz its the sock etc.
2) Try taking the bass out of any mix and see if it still grooves. Take Jamerson's line out of a Motown mix and see if it still grooves. Take Tom Hamilton's line out of an Aerosmith tune and see if it still grooves. The backbeat alone from snare doesn't quite do it.
IMO
BTW, you can groove with a Class D amp.
I guess we'll have to keep separate opinions. In mine, anyone with a good sense of groove can groove on any instrument.
Love my class D amp. I see it as the way to go for solid state amps. If you read up on the tech spec's you"ll see that they are better attuned for low frequencies. That's probably why those high power loud boomy thumpy car stereos now are using class D amps for the subs.
Class D gives not only gives you a lighter weight amp, but more importantly you can run real high wattage and draw much less current(amperage) than it's class A/B or H counterpart.
My Crest audio CD3000 draws only a little over 7 amps peak at it's max 3000 watt output. This keeps from tripping circuit breakers especially if rehearsing in a household living room which is usually wired to a 15 amp breaker. This leaves plenty of amperage in that circuit to run the other players equipment. A class A/B amp at this power level would exceed 20 amps or more to achieve the same wattage.
Class D gives not only gives you a lighter weight amp, but more importantly you can run real high wattage and draw much less current(amperage) than it's class A/B or H counterpart.
My Crest audio CD3000 draws only a little over 7 amps peak at it's max 3000 watt output. This keeps from tripping circuit breakers especially if rehearsing in a household living room which is usually wired to a 15 amp breaker. This leaves plenty of amperage in that circuit to run the other players equipment. A class A/B amp at this power level would exceed 20 amps or more to achieve the same wattage.
And, we're all entitled to our opinions. I simply offer the following observations:
1) Listen to the mix of the original tune (whatever genre) on the juke and rank the presence of the voicing in the mix. Aside from guitar solos, you will find in most cases in order of decreasing presence: vox, snare, bass, the rest. The snare is there because it plays a key role for the backbeat and sets up the groove. In Jazz its the sock etc.
2) Try taking the bass out of any mix and see if it still grooves. Take Jamerson's line out of a Motown mix and see if it still grooves. Take Tom Hamilton's line out of an Aerosmith tune and see if it still grooves. The backbeat alone from snare doesn't quite do it.
IMO
BTW, you can groove with a Class D amp.
+1. I'll add that a great bass player does not a groove make, it also requires a good drummer and good players on whatever other rhythm instruments are used in the music. Take the backbeat out of any song and it sucks for example.
And yes, all this can be done to amazing success on a Class D amp, whether or not you can do it on the same Class D amp 15 years from now remains to be seen.(Save for the Walter which is out of a lot players price range and likely in some cases, knowledge of existance.
)I don't understand what got everybody typing so fast but let me say..Class D a couple more times so maybe this dude can get some relevant answers...Class D.....Class D.
Totally agree.+1. I'll add that a great bass player does not a groove make, it also requires a good drummer and good players on whatever other rhythm instruments are used in the music. Take the backbeat out of any song and it sucks for example.
And yes, all this can be done to amazing success on a Class D amp, whether or not you can do it on the same Class D amp 15 years from now remains to be seen.(Save for the Walter which is out of a lot players price range and likely in some cases, knowledge of existance.
I don't understand what got everybody typing so fast but let me say..Class D a couple more times so maybe this dude can get some relevant answers...Class D.....Class D.
For me the more relevant Class D question is whether we will bother repairing them in 15 years. I would never accuse my tube amps of being reliable; but for the most part, they can be rebuilt. However, there are exceptions there too. Time will tell. The Class D's may be somewhat more "disposable." However, as Jimmy mentioned, my Woods has never let me down; although the Channel 1 volume pot now has to be shot with solvent about every three months or so. Amps are kind of like cars. They can be cool when they get older, but by then, there is something that works "better."
I'm no topology snob. I've used class AB, D and H all with varying degrees of success, none of which could be solely attributed to the topology of the power section. The reality is that it's more important to view the amplifier as a whole as opposed to obsessing over one aspect of it.
And the chain is only as strong as the weakest link.
That's what I'm asking here - do we know now that these new small amps are at least as reliable as the conventionals?
If so, is there any objective technical reason why the conventionals should still be manufactured?
I don't think that one will take over the other completely - preference will always lead to some people liking the old standards and others liking Class D amps. I personally fall into the Class D world. My GK MB2-500 is killer. I love it.
I play in a power trio plus a singer - with only one guitarist, one bassist and a drummer making the music, people notice what I do. Not saying I am great by any means, but just that by default they pay attention b/c it's me and the guitarist making melody over the drummer's racket
I play in a power trio plus a singer - with only one guitarist, one bassist and a drummer making the music, people notice what I do. Not saying I am great by any means, but just that by default they pay attention b/c it's me and the guitarist making melody over the drummer's racket
As with most things nowdays from computers to appliances to even cars. They're all "disposable" as in, screw maintainence or repair, just throw it away and get another one. Somewhere in this world there has to be giant junk mountains of computers, electronics or whatever all of them needing a 38 cent parts but it was easier to throw it away and get another one.
Edit: I'll add to that the most reliable and lowest maintainance amp I've ever own is my 30+ year old bassman135. I've flipped about a dozen bass amps in that time and that thing never ceases to amaze me as far as "turn it on and sound good". Granted it's had a couple tubes pulled and re-biased as a full time guitar amp since then but still, I don't buy the "SS is more reliable" stuff, not from personal experience anyway. It's like an old Chevy, you can let it sit forever and one day, fire it up and it'll get you where you need to go and be a fine ride on the way there.
If anything, I've found a lot of old tube stuff that has reliability that rivals all but the best of the heavy iron SS stuff. Class D just plain hasn't been around long enough to know if it can do that. Of course, if you're one of these folks who gets a new car every other year, what do you care? Not that that's a bad thing, it floods the used market.
Compromise for a purpose. Lugging a 50lb solid state head around just doesn't make sense (unless it's your only option, price wise)
- Apr 6, 2010
- 54
- 1
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: MTD Kingston Basses
I've been seriously wanting to switch to the Class D for a year for size and weight concerns. One issue, however, is that I love the tone I get with my Alembic F1X preamp and did not want to gig without it. The problem was that my Carvin DCM1500 amp added 30 lbs and 2 spaces. I have several cabinet setups, one of my favorites is bi-amped setups. So, I need biamp capability, Alembic preamp and lightweight. I was at my local music store testing the GK and Genz Benz class D amps. The sales guy said I should try a 1 space power amp. I was skeptical, but did my research. Last week, I bought a ART SLA2 amp. This amp is designed as a studio reference amp. It's not class D, but it weighs only 20 lbs, 2 channels and 1 space. It's 12 lbs lighter than the big Carvin amp and has more power than most Class D amps. Used it on two gigs so far and I love it. A great compromise. There's a little less power than the big Carvin, so I have to raise the volume level on the Alembic pre-amp, no biggie.
Concerning the secondary melody on this thread, I'm a student of stage presence. I work hard on my costuming, use lots of skin products and move real well on stage. I attract alot of attention on stage from the girls. The fellas give me bromance, which is weird. So, up front stage left is where I get to stand. I say, if you want to be noticed on stage, you got to work on it, just like the singers and lead guitarists do.
Concerning the secondary melody on this thread, I'm a student of stage presence. I work hard on my costuming, use lots of skin products and move real well on stage. I attract alot of attention on stage from the girls. The fellas give me bromance, which is weird. So, up front stage left is where I get to stand. I say, if you want to be noticed on stage, you got to work on it, just like the singers and lead guitarists do.
Exactly. Sales dictate the market, not any technical/engineering reasons. People like what they like.
The other problem I have with topology debates is that they assume all AB, all H, all D, etc. are created equal. That is simply not the case. There are good class D power sections and bad ones, just like there are good class AB power sections and bad ones.
I agree that it seems ridiculous. If you're not going to have some trust in the gear you bought to be reliable then why buy it?
I think the small size of these class D amps makes them look like toys and like the slightest bump would cause it to break. Though heat isn't supposed to be an issue for these amps, we are used to amps getting hot, the small stature of these amps make them look like they'd overheat in an instant. So perhaps in the back of many peoples minds they think they might overheat and crap out.
Then you take the traditional amps we're used to, they are bigger, look more durable, and just outright look like they can take a beating. Also, and I'm sure you know this, many people automatically equate bigger is better. In the long run, I think it's purely a psychological issue.
Oh, lets also add to the fact that as humans, we are reluctant to change and tend not to like it and resist it, so we usually stick with whats familiar. Just my 2 cents.
Not that I know of, but there will ALWAYS be people who believe their favorite sounds better than Class D, whether it does or not. I think that renders the question moot.
