Old school Power amplifier for bass

[epoxyjazzbass]

I would like to know what power amps can match some of my criterias :

- No Fan, passive radiator
- Class AB (if possible)
- accurate, neutral, musical.
- power about 600 to 1000w bridged mono (in 4ohms or 8 ohms not sure, didn' t have the cab yet).
- not too heavy... 32lbs/15kg max, the lighter the better

I don' t even know if such an animal exists... No problem if it's not in production.
Thanks for your advices.

 

[charlie monroe]

Pretty sure that most AB amps with that much output require a fan

 

[BigBobbyBass]

And if you need that much power, why do you care about a fan? Unless you plan on using it in a church...

 

[dincz]

criterias

drool

 

[epoxyjazzbass]

Pretty sure that most AB amps with that much output require a fan

Yes your are probably right.
No fan is perhaps my first criteria because I can play at low volume. I can also play louder, but the power is not there for making more noise..
A bridge power of 600w is not that much for a power amp though.

What about the crown K1 ? I suppose it is not a class ab, class d perhaps...

 

[cfsporn]

Why are you hung up on class AB? I'd recommend a CA9, but they have a fan and are pretty heavy.

 

[epoxyjazzbass]

Why are you hung up on class AB? I'd recommend a CA9, but they have a fan and are pretty heavy.

The CA9 is way too heavy... + 2 fans + class H, well nothing I want. I hope it sounds awesome with all these aspects. Probably though.

I tend to prefer analog amplifier because the best amps I have had are analog. Of course not all the analog amps sounds good...

 

[crguti]

why no fan?

 

[Jim Carr]

What about an older pre-Fender SWR 750 (750 watts @ 4 ohms, ~30lbs). I think the fan is "defeatable." You could by-pass the pre-amp and go right to the effects return. Would be cheap, too.

 

[cfsporn]

The CA9 is way too heavy... + 2 fans + class H, well nothing I want. I hope it sounds awesome with all these aspects. Probably though.

I tend to prefer analog amplifier because the best amps I have had are analog. Of course not all the analog amps sounds good...

Class H is basically class AB with a slightly tweaked power supply circuit to allow for more power with less weight. At least I think it is. @Bob Lee (QSC) could probably give a better description.

Also, just a nitpick, but all power amps are analog. Digital speakers don't exist since our ears don't respond well to ones and zeros. The reason class D is called class D is because that was the next letter available.

 

[BurningSkies]

Class H is basically class AB with a slightly tweaked power supply circuit to allow for more power with less weight. At least I think it is. @Bob Lee (QSC) could probably give a better description.

Also, just a nitpick, but all power amps are analog. Digital speakers don't exist since our ears don't respond well to ones and zeros. The reason class D is called class D is because that was the next letter available.

As always 'class confusion' rules the day here on TB.

 

[epoxyjazzbass]

Ok you are right, I don' t know electronic and what class d is really... I thought the switching explain why some call them digital. Probably wrong also, but the image seems right... Of course I know 0 and 1 are not producing noise on the speaker.

My hear prefer class a and ab (not all of them, the design is not everything), and I have never heard a class d that really makes it for me. Some are ok but not that much.
Well, I don' t want to go for a debate on class amplification. Though I thank you for these corrections on class letter significations.

But why do propose a CA9 as I have said no fan and lightweight, and class ab ?

 

[cfsporn]

Ok you are right, I don' t know electronic and what class d is really... I thought the switching explain why some call them digital. Probably wrong also, but the image seems right... Of course I know 0 and 1 are not producing noise on the speaker.

My hear prefer class a and ab (not all of them, the design is not everything), and I have never heard a class d that really makes it for me. Some are ok but not that much.
Well, I don' t want to go for a debate on class amplification. Though I thank you for these corrections on class letter significations.

But why do propose a CA9 as I have said no fan and lightweight, and class ab ?

I am really not sure if you are being combative or not, so I am going to write this as though you are not.

What was the last class D power amp you heard and when? They have come very far in the past few years.

I sort of recommended the CA9 as it is the definitive old school power amp for bass duty IMO. I did mention that it probably not work as it is really heavy and has a fan. Also, as Class G/H is functionally identical to AB save for the power transformer design, I didn't think that mattered.

To be honest, you kind of wrote yourself into a corner with all of your requirements. No fan and light weight usually require class D, and definitely require class D at the output levels you want. I'm trying to work with you, I am not finding anything that ticks all the boxes.

 

[BurningSkies]

I am really not sure if you are being combative or not, so I am going to write this as though you are not.

What was the last class D power amp you heard and when? They have come very far in the past few years.

I sort of recommended the CA9 as it is the definitive old school power amp for bass duty IMO. I did mention that it probably not work as it is really heavy and has a fan. Also, as Class G/H is functionally identical to AB save for the power transformer design, I didn't think that mattered.

To be honest, you kind of wrote yourself into a corner with all of your requirements. No fan and light weight usually require class D, and definitely require class D at the output levels you want. I'm trying to work with you, I am not finding anything that ticks all the boxes.

I was trying to figure a way to say this too.

But really, if someone came out with a 1000w power amp that was silent (without needing a fan), feather weight and of the traditional class A/B amp architecture/non-SMPS don't you think that everyone would be using them and have used them for decades...and maybe some of the newer class-D/smtp amps wouldn't have ever been developed?

 

[seamonkey]

Class has no effect on the sound
Fans are smarter these days, they ramp up and down based on need
Class-d is the most energy efficient, they waste less heat, and don't need to big cyclone blowers class-ab needed in the past.
Class-d is 90% of the amplifier market these days.

 

[epoxyjazzbass]

well the mosfet class ab of my heartrock glockenklang is 1000w, but needs fan.

I have seen this : Invalid Link Removed
Class ab, no fan 520w at 8 ohms, 12kg not bad.

So perhaps some other power amps from the past exists, I have never buy a power amp alone.

About class d, I have tried only head with preamp. The genz benz (really good), mark bass (not for me), roland dbass (really good).
But when I compare to my glockenklang, SWR baby blue or old acoustic... Really not as musical.

And I am combative ? What ?

 

[monsterthompson]

Assuming the class is the only thing that makes a difference in the sounds of the amps you tried is oversimplifying things.

 

[cfsporn]

And I am combative ? What ?

Sometimes people get angry when they ask for A and are told B is just as good and possibly better. I wasn't sure if you were getting to that point, but clearly you weren't.

The thing to remember about class D amps is they sound best when they have a lot of headroom.

 

[svtb15]

Thats Bravo Siera.
Ill put my old Crown MA1200 or my old Crown PSA2 against any Class D amp with the Same power rating. And you will feel the difference immediately..
I've done it at least 5 times over the a few years with TWO grammy award winning engineers/ producers. And at least 4 FOH engineers that work with Claire Bros, and ex Showco, plus a bud that plays keys with pink floyd and with some of the biggest names in the current and past top dog music world.
I trust their ears and my own over any internet forum opinions..
I was just in studio yesterday with grammy winning player Redd Volkaert doing tracks for his new record.. We were talking about this exact subject..
Im not going to go back and forth in this forum on this subject. It just gets too nasty. So this will be my only post...
Engineers pushing their numbers and specs etc etc. and never giving a clear answer..But backing up their opinions with long winded mumbo jumbo.. It doesn't mean squat . But it makes for good internet forum fodder..

Class has no effect on the sound

 

[Nephilymbass]

I use a crown XLS 1500. Run it into a 800w 8 ohm cab it's rated 1050w at 8 ohms bridges. I love it. It looks kind of cheap and you need a 4 connector speakon wired funny (just find a cable made to bridge an svt4) to run it bridged but sounds great, and it weighs less than 10 lbs. I want to say it weighs in at 8 lbs. meaning my 4 space rack bag is now lighter than my bowling ball bag.