Old Singer Using Our Email List in New Band

[Charlzm]

Reach out to her and her new band when you have a band ready to go. Band feuds are only good to sell magazines (said the old timer); if they're going to be jerks, let it go.

I used to be in an original band until 4 months ago; I stayed friends with them and support all of their projects. When the time comes that I have a new project, I'd expect the same from them. If that happens, then awesome. If they decide to not be cool, then oh, well...

 

[Mystic Michael]

Skip to today and I get an email from a band announcing their new member (our old singer) and an upcoming gig. Since I didnt sign up for emails from them, I am guessing she gave them our list, which Im pretty sure unsolicited emails are considered spam.

You are correct: Unsolicited email from any commercial entity with which the recipient has no previous or current business relationship is considered a violation of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. But as a professional e-marketer, you already knew that. Right?

I agree it was dumb to hand over the email list to her. Even though you did so in good faith, she did not receive it likewise.

Since email addresses are digital in nature, there is nothing to "hand over". And prohibiting her and her new band from using the list any more is pretty pointless - unless you've got thousands of dollars and months of free time with which to pursue a lawsuit.

That leaves two options, IMO:

1) Leave the situation be. Move on. Chalk it up to experience. Learn a valuable lesson about trust - under what circumstances to trust...and not to trust.

2) Quickly send out a blast to every person on your list. Very briefly and succinctly explain that old singer + new band are using your email list without authorization. Apologize for any inconvenience on the part of your recipients, make it very clear that it did NOT come from you, and invite them to block or blacklist all subsequent email from the offending party. THEN, move on.

Personally, I would be inclined to follow Option #2...

As you probably know, a fresh, clean email list, properly groomed, cultivated and qualified, is worth A LOT. Enough so that you may even wish to defend it after the fact. Essentially, you want to prevent your recipients from suddenly getting overloaded and burned out with "band email", lest they somehow confuse your band with the old singer and her band. Especially if there's any way in which it could ultimately could come back around to bite YOU.

MM

 

[fuzzy beard]

You lost me in your first post you said she asked for it a week or two before she quit. But then in your next post you said you held out on giving it to her for 2 months.


??????????

Lost on first page.



The beard

 

[Staccato]

Stumbo, and Agreatheight have the right idea.

Time to move on...

 

[onosson]

I auto-delete or unsubscribe from EVERY bulk email I get, even from bands I like and am a fan of. I wouldn't lose any sleep over this.

 

[spaz21387]

get the email address from one of the family or friends she emailed and sign her new band up on every porn site you can find. They will spam her email just alittle pay back for stealing your emailing list.

 

[Mystic Michael]

After you calm down,I suggest you refrain from sending your nasty email. It won't change anything and since she was a member of the band when you gave her the list, nothing illegal about it.

I think the key point here is that when the singer received a copy of the email list, she did not do so as an individual. She did so as a member of the band, and was operating under its auspices.

That means when she decides to change bands, she enjoys no privilege of ownership of this information - to be used in context of the new band, or in any other way. Unless individual fans of the old band voluntarily gave up their email addresses to her personally (opt in), with the explicit agreement that she could use them in any way she saw fit - or in accordance with an explicit policy granting her specific privileges - neither she nor her new band can use that information in any way. Not without violating CAN-SPAM, at any rate.

MM

 

[jmattbassplaya]

I like option 2.

 

[fingerbun]

You are correct: Unsolicited email from any commercial entity with which the recipient has no previous or current business relationship is considered a violation of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. But as a professional e-marketer, you already knew that. Right?

I agree it was dumb to hand over the email list to her. Even though you did so in good faith, she did not receive it likewise.

Since email addresses are digital in nature, there is nothing to "hand over". And prohibiting her and her new band from using the list any more is pretty pointless - unless you've got thousands of dollars and months of free time with which to pursue a lawsuit.

That leaves two options, IMO:

1) Leave the situation be. Move on. Chalk it up to experience. Learn a valuable lesson about trust - under what circumstances to trust...and not to trust.

2) Quickly send out a blast to every person on your list. Very briefly and succinctly explain that old singer + new band are using your email list without authorization. Apologize for any inconvenience on the part of your recipients, make it very clear that it did NOT come from you, and invite them to block or blacklist all subsequent email from the offending party. THEN, move on.

Personally, I would be inclined to follow Option #2...

As you probably know, a fresh, clean email list, properly groomed, cultivated and qualified, is worth A LOT. Enough so that you may even wish to defend it after the fact. Essentially, you want to prevent your recipients from suddenly getting overloaded and burned out with "band email", lest they somehow confuse your band with the old singer and her band. Especially if there's any way in which it could ultimately could come back around to bite YOU.

MM

If I start getting emails from two bands fighting over who has the right to promote to me, I'm going to forget about both of them. The new band for being rude, the old band for being sloppy in their data management (sorry, but that's my view).

On the other hand, some new band sends me emails unsolicited I'm not going to know where they found me. I'll ask them to stop, then block them if necessary. Old band never gets into trouble with me under that scenario.

 

[jz75]

I suggest a different angle. First, I'd send her an email in a calm tone telling her that it was not appreciated what she did. If she didnt contribute to the list or marketing much it made her request two months ago look even worse. But cursing gets you nowhere. Lesson learned though.

You could ask that she return the list or only keep her friends on her list even though you know what the answer will be. High road 2, low road 0.

In lieu of flooding people's inboxes about this, I'd wait until your next gig is booked, send an email promoting your band and jokingly apologize to everyone for getting emails from some band you never heard of or take a dig at their band name.

It's taking the high road with a pinch of sarcasm and cheap revenge for good measure. High road 2, low road 1.

And I find facebook useless as each day passes. It was great until every person has 700 friends and checks their status from their smartphone and sets up 20 of they closest friends to look at.

 

[mellowinman]

Personally, I'd go to her gigs, and talk to her fans, and try and get as many as I could to my band's shows. I would talk about how great her band sounds, and I would be the best good sport in the world. I would try and network, and see what else good can come of it, and if she or her band were to do me wrong, I would be satisfied knowing that Karma is my friend, and has never EVER let me down.

Oh the stories I could tell!

Steal my email list?

GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY!!!

 

[Mystic Michael]

If I start getting emails from two bands fighting over who has the right to promote to me, I'm going to forget about both of them. The new band for being rude, the old band for being sloppy in their data management (sorry, but that's my view).

I'm not suggesting that the original band do anything in this regard - other than the one-time only email blast that I've already suggested, in order to clarify the situation and to set the frame for the email recipients. That's all. If the singer's new band chooses to "fight" on in that manner, it's their choice. They ultimately have a lot more to lose by doing so than does the original band.

On the other hand, some new band sends me emails unsolicited I'm not going to know where they found me. I'll ask them to stop, then block them if necessary. Old band never gets into trouble with me under that scenario.

You in particular might not be paying very close attention to the details. Other fans of the band will have already quickly figured out that Band #2 just happens to have the former singer of Band #1 - and they will make the connection...

Under the circumstances, it's still far better to take the initiative - once again in the very limited, one-time-only manner I've already noted - and get out ahead of this thing. Now. Before it goes on for even one more day...

MM

 

[jive1]

An issue not brought up would be how you collected those e-mail addresses. If they were collected on a website with a Terms of Service (TOS) or Privacy Statement saying that the band won't distribute collected e-mails to 3rd parties, you are now in violation of that agreement.

 

[john_g]

Lost on first page.



The beard

She originally asked me a couple of months before she left but I blew it off. Then, the week before she quit, she insisted she get a copy of the email list to "have a backup". I still resisted but other members of the band chimed in and said I should give it to her. So, I relented. A week later she was gone. Coincidence or not, she is using the list of people that signed up for emails from OUR band not this new one.

Also, the reasons she quit was that "everything was becoming a hassle and too much work". We were losing our keyboardist and trying to find another, and two other members were going through personal stuff and making (band) life not so much fun (nothing major, just mood swings). Hey, I understand if you arent having fun anymore it might be time to move on, but I had talked to her a day before and she gave no indication and we talked about future gigs/marketing, etc. We had been booked into 2012 and she called all the venues and cancelled the gigs BEFORE quitting. She also tried to access our Facebook page to promote the cuntry band she was joining. Shady stuff IMO.

This email list thing just made me mad since it was what I worried about. I will probably not do anything in response and just let it go but it still P's me off.

 

[john_g]

I think the key point here is that when the singer received a copy of the email list, she did not do so as an individual. She did so as a member of the band, and was operating under its auspices.

That means when she decides to change bands, she enjoys no privilege of ownership of this information - to be used in context of the new band, or in any other way. Unless individual fans of the old band voluntarily gave up their email addresses to her personally (opt in), with the explicit agreement that she could use them in any way she saw fit - or in accordance with an explicit policy granting her specific privileges - neither she nor her new band can use that information in any way. Not without violating CAN-SPAM, at any rate.

MM

Exactly. This is the definition of SPAM IMO. People are now receiving emails from an entity they did not opt-into. Whether they just yawn and delete it is besides the point. The list is property of our band and since the band is still going, its still our list.

 

[fingerbun]

I'm not suggesting that the original band do anything in this regard - other than the one-time only email blast that I've already suggested, in order to clarify the situation and to set the frame for the email recipients. That's all. If the singer's new band chooses to "fight" on in that manner, it's their choice. They ultimately have a lot more to lose by doing so than does the original band.



You in particular might not be paying very close attention to the details. Other fans of the band will have already quickly figured out that Band #2 just happens to have the former singer of Band #1 - and they will make the connection...

Under the circumstances, it's still far better to take the initiative - once again in the very limited, one-time-only manner I've already noted - and get out ahead of this thing. Now. Before it goes on for even one more day...

MM

I think the one time blast would damage the original band, that was my point.

As for making the connection.....well the first step in that is to read the email. Yes I guess some might. I assume most won't. We could start a poll on who here reads unsolicited spam, to get a better idea.

I'm outside the US so the legal discussions don't apply. I'm just looking at it as the best solution to a marketing issue where no solution is perfect, and I'm assuming neither solution is more or less ethical than the other.

And I'm not expert on this, you may well be right.

 

[TRichardsbass]

I am going to assume your cover band is incorporated or something like that. Filed a DBA, whatever.

You are a legal business entity. I would pay a lawyer the $250 to write a letter to her and the new band stating that you are preparing to file a civil suit for her using information that belonged to the band, not her, and that she is in violation of the CAN SPAM and both she and her new band are both parties to the suit. The letter should insist that she not only return the email list, but provide proof that all the people emailed through that list have been contacted and that they have removed all those email addresses from all band and personal accounts.

Usually that will get them screaming. I think that would be my take. Let a registered letter from a lawyer make them decide what to do. My guess is, that unless the band she is in now is really saavy or has a laywer, they will call immediately. I would tell them comply with the letter or talk to your lawyer or see you in court.

My guess is they will dump your old singer very quickly. Revenge is best served cold. Not bad for $250

 

[lfmn16]

we all worked hard to market the band

Assuming that she worked hard too, and since the original band isn't even gigging, I don't see what the problem is. I assume that there is nothing in writing about who owns the mailing list, legal rights to the original band name, or anything else.

As far a the junior high suggestions to send the new band's email or her's to porno sites, be careful that you don't get yourself in trouble trying to get junior high revenge.

As far a her new band's email being considered spam, just try to get legal action taken against them. Who doesn't get spam every day?

I would send the mailing list an email letting them know that you will be gigging again soon with a new singer and leave it at that. Trust me, NO ONE ON YOUR MAILING LIST CARES ABOUT YOUR DRAMA.

The best thing to do is to learn from your mistakes and make sure that any policy regarding the band is in writing and signed and notorized by all members.

 

[lfmn16]

I am going to assume your cover band is incorporated or something like that. Filed a DBA, whatever.

You are a legal business entity. I would pay a lawyer the $250 to write a letter to her and the new band stating that you are preparing to file a civil suit for her using information that belonged to the band, not her, and that she is in violation of the CAN SPAM and both she and her new band are both parties to the suit. The letter should insist that she not only return the email list, but provide proof that all the people emailed through that list have been contacted and that they have removed all those email addresses from all band and personal accounts.

Usually that will get them screaming. I think that would be my take. Let a registered letter from a lawyer make them decide what to do. My guess is, that unless the band she is in now is really saavy or has a laywer, they will call immediately. I would tell them comply with the letter or talk to your lawyer or see you in court.

My guess is they will dump your old singer very quickly. Revenge is best served cold. Not bad for $250

IMHO this is a complete and total waste of money and time.

How would this work? First find a lawyer, second go to his office, explain the situation, he writes a letter (consultation and writing letter will be more than $250 unless you find an ambulance chaser). Then, who will follow up? If the lawyer, more expense. If they tell you to go screw yourself, then more expense to take them to court. How do you quantify the damages? And all this assumes a written agreement was in place regarding the band and the band's property. If not, she could argue that her efforts helped to create the mailing list, then the court would have to decide how to divide it up.

Frankly, although this is aggravating, I don't see where you have any monetary damages. It's not like they are using the original band's name, so they aren't harming your reputation.

 

[john_g]

Assuming that she worked hard too, and since the original band isn't even gigging, I don't see what the problem is. I assume that there is nothing in writing about who owns the mailing list, legal rights to the original band name, or anything else.

As far a the junior high suggestions to send the new band's email or her's to porno sites, be careful that you don't get yourself in trouble trying to get junior high revenge.

As far a her new band's email being considered spam, just try to get legal action taken against them. Who doesn't get spam every day?

I would send the mailing list an email letting them know that you will be gigging again soon with a new singer and leave it at that. Trust me, NO ONE ON YOUR MAILING LIST CARES ABOUT YOUR DRAMA.

The best thing to do is to learn from your mistakes and make sure that any policy regarding the band is in writing and signed and notorized by all members.

You dont see the problem...??? An ex-bandmate takes the mailing list of a still functioning band and uses it to market her new band? No problem there?

If I left a company and used their client email list to market my new company that is direct competition with them, I bet it would be a problem (if the old company knew I was using their list)

I wouldnt pay anyone to send letters or threaten them, at worst I would email the person that sent the new email and let them know not to use our list. Whether or not they comply is out of my hands. I might not even bother doing anything, its probably not worth it.