Double Bass ...on playing ballads

[Nathan Parker]

Thanks for posting that video, Marc. I certainly have much to learn when it comes to playing ballads. It's on of those things I've avoided, since I'm not all that great at it. I think I shall have to spend some time in the ballad woodshed.

 

[Nathan Parker]

So Paul, what's the best way for a young noob like myself to learn the lyrics of all these tunes? Listen to more vocalists? Get a lyric book?

 

[Paul Warburton]

So Paul, what's the best way for a young noob like myself to learn the lyrics of all these tunes? Listen to more vocalists? Get a lyric book?

Good question, Nathan. There are MANY song lyrics sites on the internet.
I was going to give you a link, but there are so many, you might find one better suited for your needs. Just do a Google search under Lyrics.

 

[Marc Piane]

For some of the old standards I think you should go back and listen to the original versions. Not the original jazz version either. Go to the public library and find recordings of Judy Garland or Nat King Cole or Julie Andrews... the original versions. The Richard Rodgers or Jerome Kern (or whomever) version. In addition to the lyrics you can really start to hear where some of the great jazz arrangements came from.

 

[Treyzer]

Thanks Marc for posting that great video. I haven't gotten all the way through it but it is well worth watching and digesting.

This is a great discussion and it is fun reading everyone's thoughts. I love playing ballads... (maybe cause I'm old)....
Our instrument plays such a pivotal role on these kinds of tunes. One note played well can mean so much and be approached in so many different ways...it seems that there are so many possibilities. Knowing the lyrics sure increases understanding and emotional content. The song then becomes much more than a series of changes to blow over.
Thanks Marc, Chris, Paul and everyone elase who is contributing to this great discussion.

 

[Paul Warburton]

Marc, sandwiching Nat in between Judy and Julie gave me a bit of a shiver.

 

[Marc Piane]

A Nat sandwich. Pretty hot eh?

 

[joel kelsey]

What about playing jazz ballads? I know every tune is different, but how is your approach different playing an old standard like Moonlight in Vermont or You Don't Know What Love Is versus playing something more "modern" like Infant Eyes or Peace? Are ballads with no lyrics that different than ballads with lyrics?

 

[Marc Piane]

I always try to derive meaning. Lyrics are a obvious way to get that (Peace has lyrics btw) but a story behind a tune helps too (Wayne wrote Infant Eyes for his daughter). Fred even talks about the relationship of the lyrics, melody, and rhythm in great ballads. Think of your favorite ballad. Is the feeling you get similar to the lyrical/emotional content?

There are so many great ballads but "In the We Small Hours..." has become one of my favorites to play with a singer. Talk about an intense relationship between the lyrics, melody, and harmony.

As far as approach... I guess Jane's quote "you're naked, all there is is the line" sums it up for me. Ballad playing is much more 'linear'. Lines that intertwine with the lines that the other folk in the group are playing.

I think, as bass players, we are not often encouraged to think about the line but more the rhythmic content and drive of our groove. That's important too but I'm sure we've all heard bass players on a ballad that are still beating us over the head with overt time. Let it flow.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Agreed. Also, Drew's line about tone becoming paramount in ballad playing. To me, this is one of the big keys that opens he door to betterment in all areas of playing. Great athletes throughout the ages have talked about time slowing down when they're "in the zone". MJ talked about the basket seeming as big as a hula hoop when he's there. With playing, I find that when I'm in the zone, that same attention to enjoying the sound of the instrument happens at any tempo; that said, it all starts with ballads, because if you can't get in the tone zone on a ballad, it sure as hell isn't going to happen when the notes are going by a lot faster.

 

[Uncletoad]

I'm still finding the time to watch all this. It's fascinating and really very close to my mind space lately. I'd love to dig my teeth more into playing like this.

I've been playing Johnny Hartman's 1955 "Songs from the Heart" constantly in my Van for the last 3 months. Driving my wife and V crazy.

 

[Uncletoad]

There are so many great ballads but "In the We Small Hours..." has become one of my favorites to play with a singer. Talk about an intense relationship between the lyrics, melody, and harmony.

That tune is....oh man....speechless.

 

[frichter]

wow. Lots of great stuff on the video and posted here. One thing that really got me was Mr. Hersch talking about how we are all "junkies" in a sense . . . seeking that special state of spiritual musicality. This hit me hard, because it can be true at any level -- you don't have to be Fred Hersch or Drew Gress to get to a higher level. I often open my eyes after a tune and feel like I have awoken from a dream, and I have less-than-mediocre abilities at best.

Another reason Fred's comment got me was the fact that I am considering a career that is well known as a time killer, and his comment reinforces my conviction that I have to maintain my musical endeavors in order for me to achieve personal fulfilment. Music=.

 

[Marc Piane]

Right on Frank. That natural high is part of the reason we do this. Certainly isn't for the $. I could play a 5 hours gig that has been magical and I don't feel tired at all and can't sleep when I get home.


*Conversely I've done a 2 hours gig with a less than ideal drummer and felt like I had just finished a day's worth of breaking concrete.

 

[Marc Piane]

I've been playing Johnny Hartman's 1955 "Songs from the Heart" constantly in my Van for the last 3 months. Driving my wife and V crazy.

Johnny is one of my favorite. His recording of Lush Life with Coltrane almost brings me to tears everytime.

"Romance is mush,
Stifling those who strive.
Ill live a lush life in some small dive...
And there Ill be, while I rot
With the rest of those whose lives are lonely, too..."

All the more moving if you know about Billy Strayhorn's life. I highly recommend the book titled Lush Life about Billy.

 

[Uncletoad]

Johnny is one of my favorite. His recording of Lush Life with Coltrane almost brings me to tears everytime.

"Romance is mush,
Stifling those who strive.
Ill live a lush life in some small dive...
And there Ill be, while I rot
With the rest of those whose lives are lonely, too..."

All the more moving if you know about Billy Strayhorn's life. I highly recommend the book titled Lush Life about Billy.

**** yea.

 

[joel kelsey]

This is a great thread. I have only watched the first 30 minutes of the video, so I need to finish that bad boy.....Anyways, I have always connected with the melodies of tunes. It is the music that makes feel something. I think I have been dismissive of lyrics. i am finally starting to understand how learning the lyrics can be important in establishing a deeper connection with the music. Wow, seems so obvious now when we start talking about the emotional nature of ballads. I am going to learn the lyrics of some of my favorite ballads and standards and see how it changes my approach. I can't believe I actually learned something from you knuckleheads Thanks.