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Online forums' influence on manufacturers

It has happened, but only with small boutique builders. Thunderfunk is the example that pops to mind first, he made a series of updates to his amp, and the TFB-750 had the input of TB'ers in a huge thread about it before it was released. Other than that, I know that some of the small volume bass builders like Valenti and Skjold have made options/features available because of guys on TB.


This is a great topic , I really appreciate having a forum like Talkbass to connect to a customer base on a more intimate level . I value all the feedback I get here . It is true that I have many customers who have never logged onto TB , but the fact that TB is so vocal of a platform , it is like having your very own market research team working in the back room . I really enjoy the sense of community here to . I have been able to connect to other builders and share ideas .

If a manufacturer chooses to ingnore a great resourse like Talkbass , thats thier loss . As for it being influential , I think it can be very influential even if it is a small percentage . I guess it's all perspective .

Pete
 
Don't know about basses but I made a suggestion to Boss regarding the next multi-effect interface and now it's in the GT-10. I doubt they took *my* idea but it probably reinforced a popular opinion.

How do manufacturers know the influence of a forum? I bought stuff based on recommendations here. Same for my guitarist (well, from a guitar forum).
 
This is a great topic , I really appreciate having a forum like Talkbass to connect to a customer base on a more intimate level . I value all the feedback I get here . It is true that I have many customers who have never logged onto TB , but the fact that TB is so vocal of a platform , it is like having your very own market research team working in the back room . I really enjoy the sense of community here to . I have been able to connect to other builders and share ideas .

So does that mean that we're all going to get discount/free guitars for being in the R&D department? :hyper::hyper::bassist::bassist: I kid.

Anyway, thanks for the response. It actually gives me that warm and fuzzy felling to know that someone up above in the design world actually cares what we think.
 
I think we have more influence than most folks think, it is just very hard to quantify.

We are the bass mavens. From Wiki "In network theory and sociology, a maven is someone who has a disproportionate influence on other members of the network. The role of mavens in propagating knowledge and preferences has been established in various domains, from politics to social trends."
For an interesting readable explanation grab Malcolm Gladwell's "The Tipping Point."

The internet functions as the connectors.

Manufacturers may not directly do something or not do something based on discussions here - but they ought to be listening. How many people bought SX's because they got the TB Seal of Approval. I think a similar thing is happening now with the upgraded Squire Vintage Series. Was Fender paying attention to TB and SX? It is easier for me to believe they were than otherwise. Is TB having an effect on the market for Peavey T-40's? I think so.

Part of the issue is that the impact is cumulative and delayed; but I still think it is real and potent.
 
... Basically a manufacturer has come out and told the forum members "the truth" about how much influence they really have on the overall sales of the product and I was genuinely surprised by the figure. Now, to be honest I have to give huge props to the manufacturer who said this because its not a comment thats going to "win the hearts and minds" of his forum users, but it was a very interesting bit of information.

In short, the manufacturer basically said that the influence that forum users have on the overall instruments sales is insignificant and therefore its unlikely to have any real influence on build and marketing decisions. ...

I'm not surprised by that since most of the posts I've read are from people who already owned instruments before they joined. I can give you two personal exceptions:
My Warwick $$ and my G-K MB2​-500 head were purchased strictly based on what I read on this forum. Those were huge exceptions for me.
 
A couple of threads lately on TB, and a particularly interesting one on another forum got me thinking about an interesting topic for discussion. Basically a manufacturer has come out and told the forum members "the truth" about how much influence they really have on the overall sales of the product and I was genuinely surprised by the figure. ?

I think I may know what forum you are talking about and I was surprised too but also I believe that the manufacturer was backed into a corner by alot of negative comments about his new product and like any human being retaliated....

But on the end all business rely on customer feedback
because we are the ones keeping them in business
 
I can tell you that at least in my case I listen and watch very intently to not only the talk on TB but to pro musicians that I come in contact with.

Had it not been for Talk Bass the whole high end cab market may have passed me by, I had been using a well known major brand for years, it didn't occour to me to, Uh think out side of that box so to speak.

TB lets me listen in on lots of conversations and is a great place to gather the market info a small start-up company like mine that can't afford to pay reasearch firm to do. I have actually used a number of TBers as testers and reviewers and have been able to meet and talk to a fair number of folks here ...

:) ... The big boys may not but, I enjoy the one on one here and always will ...
 
sites like this are certainly phenominal marketing tools as well as lithmus tests for smaller manufacturers. reps, managers, builders and owners post regularly on here from a lot of great companies. look at the amp forum for instance where you will see posts from dave funk, guys from genz benz, aguilar, dr bass, etc... roger sadowsky makes posts occasionally, nino is an active member, and gard shows us all previews of every roscoe bass that is made essentially. I started an idea a few years ago for an upstate new york get together, and contacted guys like martin keith(an awesome young builder, and TB member) and mike dimin(great player and endorsing artist for some solid comapnies) and through them, Joe Veilette, Harvey Citron and Mike Tobias wound up coming to the get together...sites like this certainly fuel a lot of movement within the industry, although it is primarily for smaller companies. a Lakland or Markbass thread seems as though it would get a significantly higher post count than a ibanez or SWR thread, although sales between those groups of companies wouldnt be representative of that disparity in posting activity on this forum. but in regards to those smaller companies, a strong community of knowledgable and passionate musicians and customers can certainly make a huge difference and maybe even be a driving force that allows a company or builder to stay afloat....i am pretty sure this site has a huge amoutn to do with Chris Stambaughs waitign list being in the 8-12 month range as oppposed to 4-6 months....same with wilser ramirez, cliff bordwell, etc... although that is only because they all have great reputations and talkbass members seem to liek to help spread the word and fascillitate a strong young builder and their wish to be a part of the music intrument industry.

in short, i think forums like this definitely have a collective voice that is heard and holds a considerable level of importance for parts of the music industry. peace,

-grady
 
I started a thread on the Warwick forum about how Warwick should make
a single cut bass. I did a bunch of mockups and got some people in on it.
Designs are being drawn up for it now. They will be coming out with a
single cut design by winter NAMM I believe.

The Warwick Vampyre bass was started the same way, just not by me.
 
this is a pretty cool thread. as others have said, i agree that forums certainly must have some kind of effect on companies that are discussed, but again, as said before, it'd be impossible to quantify. it is interesting though, that if you google certain basses, particularly rare (such as certain boutique custom basses or fx with a waiting list) or hard to find vintage items, a lot of the search results will lead you back to TB threads where those instruments are being discussed. I can't count how many times i've come across something either in a store or seen someone playing one (like an ovation magnum, for example) only to go home and google it, and discover a TB thread about it, where I then am able to do some research about something random i would have little or no information about otherwise. In fact that was how i originally discovered TB. Well, first i discovered harmony central and then i quickly learned that there are better sources for info out there... ha. But anyway, even if it seems that my logic is backward, if manufacturers realize the fact that a lot of info about their products ends up being gleaned from forums, they may be more keen on taking the opinions presented within said forums a bit more seriously, since they clearly do have some impact.

I know I for one have bought several pieces of gear based solely on TB threads, discussion, and questions I've asked... some of these include two Peavey T-40's (my main players), and SX P bass which i modded with a Nordstrand pup (also learned about on here, and this is my permanent cheap backup bass), a DOD 250 overdrive (which i didn't ultimately like... oh well, can't win em all), an Ashdown head (yep, i actually found some ashdown praise on here), and best of all, I wound up with a Low Down Sound custom-built sealed 610.
 
Even if there is a meaningful percentage of sales from online forums, do you think that the forum users views would flow through to force manufacture, design or marketing changes? I am not sure if I can really think of an instance of this to hand where, for example, the cllective opinion of TB caused a product name change or design change etc. However, maybe its out there and I just can't remember it.

More generally, do you think that forum users over estimate the larger significance of their own opinions on basses etc? I am not sure I ever really thought of my opinion (on basses) to be anything more than just a statement of what I think. That is, I never really stated it with a view to changing a builders mind.

The answer to your first question is, in very, very limited examples like the one's posted above, yes.

The answer to the second question is no. I don't know anyone on TB who really cares what a manufucturer thinks of their comments (or who posts with the primary purpose in mind to impact a manufacturer's new product designs). I sure don't (although I've gotten some pretty nasty PM's from a few manufacturers who's product I've given less than stellar reviews... which I found 'interesting':D).

I think the reason that most of us who spend a lot of time here became involved in the site is to share our love of bass (music, equipment, whatever) and to help players who aren't quite as compulsive about this stuff and who are getting ready to spend their hard earned cash in a sometimes overwhelming category (i.e., basses and amps).

I feel like most of us act like typical consumers writing about their experiences with products in a category that they really enjoy; for the benefit of other consumers, not manufacturers.
 
Well, interesting topic.

:)

...yes, there is some influence on what we do, but it is a two way street...I think that our part of this site (we are a contributing member, as a business) works both ways. We show things we are working on, and it draws interest to the ideas we have, comments made on what we show affect our choices as we go forward at times.

TB is a part of our business model. It isn't an overwhelming part of it, but we definitely are paying attention, and it is absolutely a good portion of our marketing department! ;)

I don't know how much of it is personally inspired, because I have been a TB addict since about 2000...

:hiding:

...but at least some of this is because of me personally...

:eek:
 
It certainly can work the other way. Over at the RickResource.com forum the Rickenbacker CEO is an active participant and I've known of people being banned for daring to criticise Rickenbacker flaws (and there are plenty to choose from). Seems like the moderators fall over themselves to keep the chief sweet and whenever a discussion veers into praising or even worse, recommending 3rd party add-ons for Rics, threads are locked and users are slapped on the wrist for being 'inflammatory'.

It is a great shame, as otherwise it is a very good site/forum which should be independent. Rickenbacker have their own forum on the company website, but seem to spend most of their time prowling the better site and the mods just bow down in their wake.

Corporate muscle vs Free Speech - no contest.
 
This is a great topic , I really appreciate having a forum like Talkbass to connect to a customer base on a more intimate level . I value all the feedback I get here.... the fact that TB is so vocal of a platform , it is like having your very own market research team working in the back room . I really enjoy the sense of community here to . I have been able to connect to other builders and share ideas .

If a manufacturer chooses to ingnore a great resourse like Talkbass , thats thier loss . As for it being influential , I think it can be very influential even if it is a small percentage . I guess it's all perspective .

Pete
+1
I spend more time here than anywhere else on the net.
 
....a manufacturer has come out and told the forum members "the truth" about how much influence they really have on the overall sales of the product and I was genuinely surprised by the figure. Now, to be honest I have to give huge props to the manufacturer who said this because its not a comment thats going to "win the hearts and minds" of his forum users, but it was a very interesting bit of information.

Sometimes it's "the truth" that people up the wall. Not just about what influence the forum members have, but about everything - ask a question, get an answer, but sometimes people want corporate speak and you might not get it from certain sources.....but if the forum members in question are accustomed to this, they might even grow to value it.

In short, the manufacturer basically said that the influence that forum users have on the overall instruments sales is insignificant and therefore its unlikely to have any real influence on build and marketing decisions. I don't think there was any suggestion that forum users' views are ignored, but more that they don't rank particuarly high when it comes to the views of their biggest buyers (ie stores - big chains etc), their own R&D departments and marketing departments.

Over on the EBMM Forum (I'm not saying we're talking about that forum, just using it an example), the company values our opinions and our input, but the idea that we know best about design or marketing is - of course - silly.

"You guys are like cayenne pepper. A little goes a long way."

And it isn't a question of selling to US. We're going to buy the things. It's how to sell it to the guy who wanders into GC, looking for an Ibanez. Or whatever. It's really not our area of expertise. I think most of us get that.

How do you perceive the collective influence of the forum on manufacturers etc. Do you think they listen to the views and do you think that they have any real influence?

Every now and then, if the manufacturer is REALLY smart, the forum members get tossed a bone. Green basses don't sell, but we had a chance to get our Dargies. That entire run of basses and guitars happened because of the forum.

Smaller builders like Pete are another issue entirely, but when you're talking about a "Biggie", then our influence is probably exactly what it should be - minor but sometimes interesting.