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Only $2,000 to improve your amp's performance

#122
bassybill said:
Okay, I think I'm as entitled to comment here as anyone, moderator duties aside for the moment.

People are welcome to spend their money how they wish - or endorse whatever product they wish to, if their status as players gives them that commercial clout (without in any way making them authoritative in other respects on this issue, of course).

But I, like others here with some understanding of electricity, would like to know why the manufacturers' claims as published on their website are - let's be clear about this - totally meaningless, unscientific hogwash. It may impress the lay reader, but other than that it is drivelling, pseudotechnical nonsense. If there are some merits to their product, then why obfuscate in this way? Where's the impedance value for the cord? This is something they claim as a technical superiority, and it's easy to measure. Why don't they state the value?

As for results of double blind tests, these, too, are conspicuous by their absence. No surprises there, then.

The suggestion that "only the most musical can hear the difference" is a hilarious take on the classic Emperor's new clothes tale.

I have to say I admire the manufacturers immensely for creating a successful and highly profitable business based on people's desire to own something special. But I'm not willing to concede that there are two equally valid sides to this discussion. The burden of proof definitely resides with the faithful here - those with what Sam Harris has called "an insufficient appetite for evidence". Until then, I shall apply Occam's razor and conclude that the most obvious explanation for this phenomenon is also the most likely. Forgive me if I don't rush to try one of these for myself as I would rather spend time working on my alchemy, invisibility or astral projection if I was inclined to mysticism.
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Excellent overview. I think we should all read the article about N Rays and ask ourselves how those famous scientists could have been deluded. The answer is that it can happen to anybody.

Psychological bias is a proven fact. I personally see no reason to let my gear choices be influenced by it. I am willing to trust scientific and technical knowledge before I will trust testimonial evidence or even my own ears. Let's say that golden brains trump golden ears. :D

Indeed, I see no reason to conduct a listening test of a power cable, double blind or otherwise.
 
#124
I cannot get past this post until I applaud Richard Lindsay's reply #105. From opening statement to conclusion, I found it to be a wonderfully constructed use of debate language and structural presentation (besides being factual). I dub it to be of Churchillian flawlessness. :D
 
#125
Limeman said:
This brings up a another point: you felt those cables did not change, improve or alter the sound based on YOUR ears. Until we can quantify how your brain and ears process sound, frequency, spatial relationship, etc and then use that as the measure against potential change, then it is nothing more than YOUR opinion. But someone else "might" have heard a difference during your testing. Does that mean they are wrong and you are right? Maybe. Maybe not. Point is - our hearing is our own, 100% subjective. You can't tell me what I'm able to hear nor can I you. So if I pay $100 for a power cord and I feel it sounds better, so be it. If you think that is silly and you'd rather spend that dough on beer and pizza, go for it. Only difference is, I can produce a boatload of verifiable medical data that supports the consumption of beer and pizza (in excess of course) is NOT ideal for your health. ;)
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Quickly: My boss at the time and several local audiophiles are true believers in fancy power cables and all claimed to be able to readily tell the difference between them. We did a blind test, in which neither myself or any of them were able to tell any difference between the cables. Interestingly enough, in another blind test, I was able to readily identify an amplifier with a 5% out of spec resistor in a critical place. 3 out 4 of the other guys couldn't. Also of note, the conclusion they came to after the blind test of the cables was that the test was flawed and it in no way affected their perception that the different cables sounded different. I think that what you're saying about hearing being subjective should probably extend to perception being 100% subjective. Part of the human condition is that our perceptions of things are often flawed.

I also have a large amount of empirical evidence that fancy power cables have no affect on anything as well as the knowledge to discern that every stitch of marketing material that I've read from these manufacturers is BS. That being said, I will freely admit that this biases my expectations as to whether these things will affect sonics or not, so maybe that's skewing my auditory perception. I doubt you'd find a hardcore audiophile who would admit the same (in an opposite sense, of course :D).

And like I always say in these debates, I haven't actually tested the cable in question so I will make no comment on it other than to say that I'm skeptical about whether it does anything or not.

And I'd spend the $100 on a bottle of Lagavulin. :D
 
#130
Some have mentioned instument cables. Apples and oranges, completely different and shouldn't be compared to power cables. I believe you can hear differences between insturment cables. Not so for power cables (of same gage).

I'm not an electrical engineer, but I'm a contractor who has done some electrical work (working for a master electrician wiring commercial buildings) etc. There is no way anybody is going to hear any difference between one of those and a standard cord IMO.

CRAZY how some guys have the balls to make $$ like this. Those crystals, OMG. lol Modern day con men (the link comparing the two power amps is an excellent example). Look hard enough and I bet somebody finds these power cords for $20 or so.

First TBer to find an ESP cord via another link for a reasonable amount of $$ get's a prize. ;)

Fun thread.
 
#134
Mark Reccord said:
Quickly: My boss at the time and several local audiophiles are true believers in fancy power cables and all claimed to be able to readily tell the difference between them. We did a blind test, in which neither myself or any of them were able to tell any difference between the cables. Interestingly enough, in another blind test, I was able to readily identify an amplifier with a 5% out of spec resistor in a critical place. 3 out 4 of the other guys couldn't. Also of note, the conclusion they came to after the blind test of the cables was that the test was flawed and it in no way affected their perception that the different cables sounded different. I think that what you're saying about hearing being subjective should probably extend to perception being 100% subjective. Part of the human condition is that our perceptions of things are often flawed.

I also have a large amount of empirical evidence that fancy power cables have no affect on anything as well as the knowledge to discern that every stitch of marketing material that I've read from these manufacturers is BS. That being said, I will freely admit that this biases my expectations as to whether these things will affect sonics or not, so maybe that's skewing my auditory perception. I doubt you'd find a hardcore audiophile who would admit the same (in an opposite sense, of course :D).

And like I always say in these debates, I haven't actually tested the cable in question so I will make no comment on it other than to say that I'm skeptical about whether it does anything or not.

And I'd spend the $100 on a bottle of Lagavulin. :D
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Your thoughts on perception are 100% right on. Thanks for the input!
 
#135
I'm late to this thread, but the last time this nonsense came up, it inspired me to create a new sig.

Part 1: My endorsement of power receptacles.
Part 2: A Victor Wooten quote.

If Victor Wooten can "definitely hear a difference" in those power cables, then I can "definitely hear a difference" in those power receptacles, despite the fact that I've never seen, heard, touched, smelled, or tasted one. Any attempts to disprove MY endorsement will be equivalent to disproving Victor Wooten's endorsement. And since that guy's drool is worshiped as the nectar of the gods around here, I think I'm pretty safe.
 
#138
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#139
dukaruk said:
I find it hard to believe that Wooten would risk his reputation for a payday. Nothing he's done in his career has made it seem (to me) that he is going to start doing promo spots for products he doesn't believe in.

So, either... 1) he didn't endorse these 2) he's an idiot 3) they don't work and he wants a payday 4) they work to his ears

Assuming 1 isn't true and given his reputation alone, I would be willing to listen with open ears to a $109 power cord. I just have other things I would spend that money on first, like, lessons.
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Why would the fact that Wooten is a superb musician lead anyone to believe he has a clue about electronics? He's just as susceptible to voodoo as the next guy.
 

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