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Only $2,000 to improve your amp's performance

#61
well, I have lots of them thar cords and a half dozen power strips too! There is a HUGE difference in sound with these cords. But the cords have to be perfectly straight and no droop from the plug (I put a roll of TP under the cord to gently ease it down). I am on happy street now.:atoz:

The strips I just use on my alarm clocks and stuff------man, are the clocks loud now and keep better time as well!

PS: I wonder if it would be entertaining to watch someone react to having lost his cord AND power strip during a bar gig?
 
#62
Come on guys... I'm having a hard time believing that Victor Wooten, Adam Nitti, Derrick Murdock and other pros are tone-deaf and unable to determine if a product adds value to their sound - and are willing to put their reputations on the line by endorsing it if it didn't make a positive difference. But based on the over-all reaction to these power cords in this thread, they are idiots for using them. If any one of you has actually used these power cords (I'm talking the $109 and $159 instrument amp versions, not the OTT $799 one geared toward high-end audiophiles and pro studios) then I'd love to hear why you think the product was or was not worth your hard earned dollar.

The real question here isn't "do these things work", but rather are your ears/technique/skill and/or your rig/gig (or competitors vying for your gig) of a high enough caliber that you can notice a difference and want and/or are willing to give yourself every extra advantage, no matter how great or slight? For many of us here at TalkBass, the answer is yes. For others - no. Neither is right or wrong. But to bash out of ignorance is a disappointment for fellow TB'ers.

It wasn't too long ago when the average player believed that an $8 ProCo instrument cable was every bit the sonic equivalent to an expensive "esoteric" cable, and those who spent the extra $$$ were idiots. If you are still in that camp, you are wrong. There is a difference. Whether you are willing to to pay for that difference, be it a couple extra bucks, hundreds extra, or somewhere in between - now that is another discussion.

Bottom line for me: I don't care about this specific product per-say (although it does intrigue me) but what I was hoping for when I first began to read this thread was at least a modicum of an intelligent conversation about the "possible" benefits of an A/C cord that was designed from the ground-up to be better suited to our needs as musicians/bassist and users of amplification. Clearly that is not happening here - yet.

Ok... done with my rant.
 
#63
Limeman said:
Come on guys... I'm having a hard time believing that Victor Wooten, Adam Nitti, Derrick Murdock and other pros are tone-deaf and unable to determine if a product adds value to their sound
Click to expand...

The product will also probably add value to their bank account.

Limeman said:
Bottom line for me: I don't care about this specific product per-say (although it does intrigue me) but what I was hoping for when I first began to read this thread was at least a modicum of an intelligent conversation about the "possible" benefits of an A/C cord that was designed from the ground-up to be better suited to our needs as musicians/bassist and users of amplification. Clearly that is not happening here - yet.
Click to expand...

My problem: How can a five foot long "superior" power cable somehow improve the quality of electricity if the total amount of Romex used in the wiring is 90%?
 
#65
Limeman said:
Come on guys... I'm having a hard time believing that Victor Wooten, Adam Nitti, Derrick Murdock and other pros are tone-deaf and unable to determine if a product adds value to their sound - and are willing to put their reputations on the line by endorsing it if it didn't make a positive difference. But based on the over-all reaction to these power cords in this thread, they are idiots for using them. If any one of you has actually used these power cords (I'm talking the $109 and $159 instrument amp versions, not the OTT $799 one geared toward high-end audiophiles and pro studios) then I'd love to hear why you think the product was or was not worth your hard earned dollar.

The real question here isn't "do these things work", but rather are your ears/technique/skill and/or your rig/gig (or competitors vying for your gig) of a high enough caliber that you can notice a difference and want and/or are willing to give yourself every extra advantage, no matter how great or slight? For many of us here at TalkBass, the answer is yes. For others - no. Neither is right or wrong. But to bash out of ignorance is a disappointment for fellow TB'ers.

It wasn't too long ago when the average player believed that an $8 ProCo instrument cable was every bit the sonic equivalent to an expensive "esoteric" cable, and those who spent the extra $$$ were idiots. If you are still in that camp, you are wrong. There is a difference. Whether you are willing to to pay for that difference, be it a couple extra bucks, hundreds extra, or somewhere in between - now that is another discussion.

Bottom line for me: I don't care about this specific product per-say (although it does intrigue me) but what I was hoping for when I first began to read this thread was at least a modicum of an intelligent conversation about the "possible" benefits of an A/C cord that was designed from the ground-up to be better suited to our needs as musicians/bassist and users of amplification. Clearly that is not happening here - yet.

Ok... done with my rant.
Click to expand...

It's not going to happen here, because the majority of us lack the depth of faith required to believe that power cords make a difference. We want proof, which doesn't exist.

"What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away ..." ~ The Doobie Brothers

Seriously, you're looking for intelligent conversation, but the fact remains that there has never been published a documented double-blind test demonstrating that either power cables or speaker cables of the same gauge make any difference at all in the sound of any audio system, audiophile or live sound. You are a true believer, and are willing to accept hype over science. You also apparently think you have the "golden ear," and those who don't hear the difference have inferior hearing. I will become a true believer when I see the results of a double-blind test on a statistically significant sample size and the results of tests performed using scientific measurement systems.
 
#66
Implosion said:
My problem: How can a five foot long "superior" power cable somehow improve the quality of electricity if the total amount of Romex used in the wiring is 90%?
Click to expand...

"Romex", meaning generic plastic-coated cable? I am doubtful that is the quality of copper cable being used. But even if it were, the idea behind using multiple smaller gauge cables is the elimination of phase distortion/shifts within our hearing range. According to ESP, large diameter cable, such as single 14-awg, allows for these distortions to be audible well within our hearing range. The smaller 20-awg cable apparently have no such phase shifts until well past human hearing at 27 kHz. Take a read of their white paper. Interesting.
 
#69
Limeman said:
"Romex", meaning generic plastic-coated cable? I am doubtful that is the quality of copper cable being used. But even if it were, the idea behind using multiple smaller gauge cables is the elimination of phase distortion/shifts within our hearing range. According to ESP, large diameter cable, such as single 14-awg, allows for these distortions to be audible well within our hearing range. The smaller 20-awg cable apparently have no such phase shifts until well past human hearing at 27 kHz. Take a read of their white paper. Interesting.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the wiring before the power cable. The one that constitutes as the household wiring.
 
#71
Implosion said:
I was referring to the wiring before the power cable. The one that constitutes as the household wiring.
Click to expand...

Got that. Again, the ESP white paper suggests that they are moving the phase distortions inherent in standard and large gauge power cords out of range of human hearing. If the ESP power cable is viewed as a "filter" then the cable that brings the A/C to the power jack in the home/club/studio is irrelevant.
 
#74
Limeman said:
Come on guys... I'm having a hard time believing that Victor Wooten, Adam Nitti, Derrick Murdock and other pros are tone-deaf and unable to determine if a product adds value to their sound - and are willing to put their reputations on the line by endorsing it if it didn't make a positive difference. But based on the over-all reaction to these power cords in this thread, they are idiots for using them.
Click to expand...

If I was even modestly compensated ($$) for using this stuff, my personal audio placebo testing would no longer be valid, either - they would be idiots to not use them. Capitalism, the American way, and all that good stuff.
 
#75
Munjibunga said:
It's not going to happen here, because the majority of us lack the depth of faith required to believe that power cords make a difference. We want proof, which doesn't exist.

"What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away ..." ~ The Doobie Brothers

Seriously, you're looking for intelligent conversation, but the fact remains that there has never been published a documented double-blind test demonstrating that either power cables or speaker cables of the same gauge make any difference at all in the sound of any audio system, audiophile or live sound. You are a true believer, and are willing to accept hype over science. You also apparently think you have the "golden ear," and those who don't hear the difference have inferior hearing. I will become a true believer when I see the results of a double-blind test on a statistically significant sample size and the results of tests performed using scientific measurement systems.
Click to expand...



Sums it all up. If the results are real, why wouldn't they test em blindly and provide unequivocal proof?
 
#77
Limeman said:
It wasn't too long ago when the average player believed that an $8 ProCo instrument cable was every bit the sonic equivalent to an expensive "esoteric" cable, and those who spent the extra $$$ were idiots. If you are still in that camp, you are wrong. There is a difference.
Click to expand...
if this is true, then it should be easily proved. so far, nobody's been able to prove it to me, and nobody's ever shown me a scientific study proving it. and yes, i've tried many a high end cable, and as a result i buy whatever decent and well-made cable is on sale, whether it's proco, planet waves, or a house brand.

but since i'm wrong about that, certainly you have verifiable independent proof, correct? ok, here's your oppurtunity...
 
#80
LAG said:
Who in God's green earth do they think are fooling??
Click to expand...

There's a certain mindset that says the more $ you spend the better result. That's not lost on this guy:

Link Removed

Pay particular attention to the LANH 150 watt power amp, which he sells for $1950. Now have a look at this:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

And his $3500 LANH 500 watt power amp?

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-A500-Reference-Studio-Amplifier/dp/B000CZ0RL0

So you can just imagine what the actual value is for his $500 cables.

For the curious, his $45,000 speakers are built with less than $1,000 worth of parts.

As to the ESP white paper, it should be printed on a roll of this:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
"It's only a lie if you believe it's a lie"
George Costanza.
 
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