Open A string rattle/buzz

[Matty Koff]

While I'm hunting for a luthier. I might as well ask here.

So, I've pretty much taught myself how to check relief, adjust action and set up a bass to my liking. But.. I'm pretty worried about this noise I'm hearing coming out of my P-bass.

So, I used the strings that came with it for a few months no issues. I'm pretty it came stock with Fender .45-.105. I changed them up and wans't having issues.

I put some Black Beauty .45-105's on it.. and didn't notice any buzzing for a couple weeks after that.
But.. there was one day I left my gig bag in the back of my truck for an hour or two and by the time I remembered it that gig bag was hot on the outside.

I brought it inside and let it cool. Unfortunately after another practice I left it outside again at night.. it has since been sitting in my house. One day I pick it up and the Open A is rattling.. I don't think it's going through the amp but it's so noticable that playing at low volumes through my practice amp I hear it and it is god awful. It's only the open A. I raised the saddle on that string and THOUGHT that fixed it but it's rattling again.

I'm afraid I warped the neck but I can't tell by looking at it. I'm hoping that's not the issue because I love the feel of this neck.

But, I can't see it touching any frets. It's not touching the pickups.. none of the other 3 strings are experiencing this issue. I can't make out where the sound is coming from other than it stops when I press on the A string on the nut.

Leading to believe me it is an issue of replacing the nut.. but it's a synthetic bone nut.. and I'm using the same guages as it came with stock. If it were plastic I'd be sure it was the nut.

The bass is less than a year old ;\ I hope it wasn't my negligence leading to a warped neck, and the stock neck just has a beautiful feel. I've considered sending it to Fender to see if it would be covered in the warranty.. but I'd really just like to find a decent luthier to tell me for sure what's wrong.

So what do you guys think? Given that it's only the open A, that it stops rattling when I apply pressure to the string on the headstock side of the nut.

would a warped neck cause this? It breaks my heart. This bass is so nice.

 

[FunkHead]

It's probably fine. It is very important to get enough wraps around the tuner post to bring the A string close to the Bushing. This ensures a good angle and downward pressure. 3 to 4 wraps is key. I would check that first and maybe post a picture of that area.

 

[cvsurg]

A rattly A string is not that unusual in a Fender and is due to lack of downward (toward the fretboard) pressure of the string on the nut as mentioned above. Don't think the time in the heat had anything to do with it if that's the only problem you're having. There is a single string retainer device, the exact name of which escapes me at the moment (somebody will come by and chime in on it), that is not permanent, and apparently does a good job. Check that out.

 

[cvsurg]

Strong-Arm™ string retainer; check out a picture here-
The Official Fender Precision Bass Club (Part 8) | Page 142 | TalkBass.com

 

[mcontour]

I had the same problem on my 64 Jazz Bass..the A string rattled. If I touched the string behind the nut, the rattle went away. I rewrapped the string on the post to push the bottom winding down as far as possible but no luck.

For a short term fix, installed one of those rubber pick holders that bridges across two strings. That certainly stopped the rattle.

Longer term, I went to slightly heavier strings (tune down 1/2 step) and that also made the rattle go away.

 

[Matty Koff]

You guys are making me feel better. I do indeed only have 2 wraps on the A string.. the thing that gets me is that it wasn't doing this initially with the new set of strings.

Looking down the neck I can't see any frets out of alignment or anything.

I'll prob just go buy a new set of strings.. maybe stick with fenders or something. I'm starting to think these DR black beauties were intended for a different headstock design or a longer scale length or something as I had to go past the thin part of the string when winding up the Low E. They sound great other than the rattle... I guess I cut the A way too short.

 

[Matty Koff]

Don't I feel like a total noob. I just rewrapped the tuning peg and forced the string to wrap down. It was going up the tuning peg...I did not know this was a thing. 2.5 wraps downwards..no buzz. I love you P-bass. Learn something new every day. I need to check how my Ibby's strings are wrapped.. although that bass isn't giving me any issues at all.

I swear I didn't have any issues with all the guitar's i've owned before getting into locking tuners either.

I mean.. hit any string hard enough it'll buzz or rattle. This thing sounded hallow and dead inside until a few minutes ago.

 

[FunkHead]

Don't I feel like a total noob. I just rewrapped the tuning peg and forced the string to wrap down. It was going up the tuning peg...I did not know this was a thing. 2.5 wraps downwards..no buzz. I love you P-bass. Learn something new every day. I need to check how my Ibby's strings are wrapped.. although that bass isn't giving me any issues at all.

I swear I didn't have any issues with all the guitar's i've owned before getting into locking tuners either.

I mean.. hit any string hard enough it'll buzz or rattle. This thing sounded hallow and dead inside until a few minutes ago.

Good Job. I always leave my A string real long and have it All the way down to the bushing.

 

[BarryPseudonym]

Old thread, but thanks for it - it's just saved me a lot of time and potentially money. Picked up my bass after 12 years of non-activity, changed the strings and feared the worst when the A string rattled. Never had this before, and after reading the above, a re-wrap sorted it. Thanks again; would never have occurred to me that this was it.

 

[Hypercaffium]

I'm having the exact same problem with my new American Original 60 P bass. I'm sure it's nothing, but better to check.
Since I've never experienced these problems with my basses (which I setup by myself) I'm not sure what I need to check on the A string?
Strings are properly installed, so what you guys suggest?

 

[Matty Koff]

I'm having the exact same problem with my new American Original 60 P bass. I'm sure it's nothing, but better to check.
Since I've never experienced these problems with my basses (which I setup by myself) I'm not sure what I need to check on the A string?
Strings are properly installed, so what you guys suggest?

The wraps of your string are going down, not up, on the tuning peg? How many wraps?

You have to make sure the wraps start at the top and go down.. and you want at least a good three wraps so it pushes the string down between the nut and the tuning peg. Even better leave enough string to wrap it all the way to the bottom of the tuning peg, which You probably won't be able to get more than 4 wraps.

String Break-Angle at Nut - The problem — Haze Guitars

If your break angle is good and string has enough wraps around the tuning peg and they're going down.. nut slot might be too large.

 

[Hypercaffium]

I'll check everything asap, thanks a lot for your help.

 

[dwizum]

the thing that gets me is that it wasn't doing this initially with the new set of strings.

I know I'm picking up on older content in the thread, but I felt this was worth pointing out. If you don't set your witness points, you can expect the setup to change over the first few weeks as the strings settle. This can't be emphasized enough.

@Hypercaffium - if wrapping the string all the way down the post doesn't fix it, take a close look at the nut. I've had brand new Fenders in for setup where there was finish or glue residue in the nut slot, making it impossible for the nut to sit flat, which can cause a rattle just like you're describing. Get the slot and nut bottom nice and clean and true then reinstall the nut with just a tiny swipe of wood glue (or even just Elmer's white glue). You don't really need to glue it in solidly, just enough glue to keep it from falling out (or rattling!)

 

[Matty Koff]

I know I'm picking up on older content in the thread, but I felt this was worth pointing out. If you don't set your witness points, you can expect the setup to change over the first few weeks as the strings settle. This can't be emphasized enough.

Yeah 6 years ago.. I had my wraps going up the post.. long since solved @ Post #7

 

[dwizum]

@Matty Koff glad you solved it way back when - I wanted to add that since this post seems to float back up every few years and it may help someone else in the future.

 

[Hypercaffium]

Yesterday I was able to do a quick 10 minutes check on my P, but I must investigate more for sure because the problem is still there.
Here's a couple of pictures.

I tried to rewrap my A string a couple of times but like I said it was already installed properly, so the result was still the same, obviously: wrap start at the top and go down, decent angle from peg to nut slot, but it still buzzes.

• The buzz happens only when I pluck hard with my fingers over the split coil pickup. Plucking in different places makes the buzz less noticeable. I guess more tension = less buzz.
  
• The buzz doesn't happen immediately, but after a second approximately. It's clear that the vibration of the string touches something.
• Touching the A string behind the nut doesn't remove the buzz. It does if I press VERY hard, which changes the pitch of the note. Again... more tension = less buzz.
• I can't identify the exact point where the buzz happens. It's not the pickups, it's not the bridge saddles, probably it's not even the nut. It could be one of the first frets maybe, but I can't see that happening visually. I must try with a marker on the frets.
• I came to the conclusion that it could be the neck relief. I didn't check it yesterday, but I've done a complete setup a week ago and it was fine. I'll try all the things you guy suggested in the next days and report back.

Thanks.

 

[dwizum]

Can't hurt to check for loose hardware, too. Try touching screws or other hardware with your finger while it's buzzing. Things like the tuner post, ferrule, screws, etc.

Does it go away if you press on the nut itself?

 

[Matty Koff]

Yesterday I was able to do a quick 10 minutes check on my P, but I must investigate more for sure because the problem is still there.
Here's a couple of pictures.
View attachment 3913880
View attachment 3913883
I tried to rewrap my A string a couple of times but like I said it was already installed properly, so the result was still the same, obviously: wrap start at the top and go down, decent angle from peg to nut slot, but it still buzzes.

• The buzz happens only when I pluck hard with my fingers over the split coil pickup. Plucking in different places makes the buzz less noticeable. I guess more tension = less buzz.
  
• The buzz doesn't happen immediately, but after a second approximately. It's clear that the vibration of the string touches something.
• Touching the A string behind the nut doesn't remove the buzz. It does if I press VERY hard, which changes the pitch of the note. Again... more tension = less buzz.
• I can't identify the exact point where the buzz happens. It's not the pickups, it's not the bridge saddles, probably it's not even the nut. It could be one of the first frets maybe, but I can't see that happening visually. I must try with a marker on the frets.
• I came to the conclusion that it could be the neck relief. I didn't check it yesterday, but I've done a complete setup a week ago and it was fine. I'll try all the things you guy suggested in the next days and report back.

Thanks.

My guess would be it having something to do with the nut slot itself since it's just the one string, but I'm not a luthier to be able to say for sure. IME too much or too little relief only causes buzz on fretted notes, and a high fret would effect more than one string, though it's possible to have a rough spot on a fret I guess. Worth checking to make sure none of the frets are popping out.

Try putting pressure on the string right on the nut and plucking it and see if it still buzzes like dwizum asked..
if that solves it I'd say the nut slot is either filed too low or too wide for the gauge of string, or perhaps the angle of the slot isn't right.. and from what I'm reading that can be solved with various solutions to fill in the slot a bit.. though it might take a little bit of filing to get it right after you fill it.

 

[Lobster11]

Yesterday I was able to do a quick 10 minutes check on my P, but I must investigate more for sure because the problem is still there.
Here's a couple of pictures.
View attachment 3913880
View attachment 3913883
I tried to rewrap my A string a couple of times but like I said it was already installed properly, so the result was still the same, obviously: wrap start at the top and go down, decent angle from peg to nut slot, but it still buzzes.

• The buzz happens only when I pluck hard with my fingers over the split coil pickup. Plucking in different places makes the buzz less noticeable. I guess more tension = less buzz.
  
• The buzz doesn't happen immediately, but after a second approximately. It's clear that the vibration of the string touches something.
• Touching the A string behind the nut doesn't remove the buzz. It does if I press VERY hard, which changes the pitch of the note. Again... more tension = less buzz.
• I can't identify the exact point where the buzz happens. It's not the pickups, it's not the bridge saddles, probably it's not even the nut. It could be one of the first frets maybe, but I can't see that happening visually. I must try with a marker on the frets.
• I came to the conclusion that it could be the neck relief. I didn't check it yesterday, but I've done a complete setup a week ago and it was fine. I'll try all the things you guy suggested in the next days and report back.

Thanks.

Someone was describing the same symptoms in another thread not long ago. It turned out that the bridge saddles were all angled -- i.e., for each string, the saddle was higher on one side of the string than the other -- and squaring them up solved the problem.

 

[MuddButters]

This is also a squire problem, i have a brand new Classic Vibe Precision (Indonesia) and the rattle came at me straight from the box... I'm familiar with it and was considering returning the Bass until I figured this is common issue by reading some threads.

Here's my take on this issue.... after visiting a Luthier for his opinion where he confirmed the string is not wired low enough on the peg therefore it rattles on the nut and vibrations are hitting the first fret he said thee's nothing he can do from warranty point of view but said he can ask Fender to possibly send new strings (For the record i think this is a good idea because i never cut my bass strings and wrap the entire string on the peg which gives me enough meet to control the position of the string on the peg). The problem with the squire is that the tuner pegs are hour glass shape and therefor even if you try to wire the strings to overlap downwards its natural direction is to wrap to the center. If you look at every other after market machine head they are all concentric shaped pegs and not hour glass shape.

At this point I'm thinking i have one of two options to fix. (1) I order a machine head of my choice Hipshot or generic which only have a concentric shape to the peg and in theory this will allow me to wrap the string in a downward spiral like i want. (2) Add a string tension peg ahead of the A string and this way all future string replacements will not to carry the risk of having to deal with the "Fender A Rattle". Obviously the string tension peg is the cheaper and faster option and probably guaranteed to solve the problem (but obviously changes the P-Bass look of the head).

There's actually a fender string retainer that fits on the tuner peg if you have the tuners with the hex nut on the front which some people have said that Fender by knowing about this issue should give this part for free.
Here's the part on amazon. Unfortunately my tuners are the kind that slide through the head stock with screws holding it in place from the back (no nut in front of the bushing). See the link for the product on Amazon and you'll get a better understanding of what I'm talking about.
Fender 0078972049 STEALTH STRING RETAINER BASS

Final thought..... I said i don't cut my strings and just wrap the entire string, if I pop the A string out of the nut (factory strung and cut steel strings) the string natural (straight) alignment with right side of tuner peg is a few mm left of the A string nut slot. This would suggest that i need a correct scale string on this tuner and not have it cut so that there's enough winding to create a thickness around the tuner peg which will get the string to align correctly with the nut slot while allowing to push the string down lower on the tuner peg. .

Hope this information helps the discussion.