I definitely see your side of things, and to an extent agree. However I still prefer to refer to it how the builder and player would. But by no means do I have a problem with any differing opinions, I was just curious.
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Opinions on 4 string vs anything else
- Thread starter JRuben
- Start date
The part of this discussion that addresses playing open strings has shaken a memory deep in the recesses of my mind and enabled me to do some analysis of how I play and why.
Way back in the 70s I bought my first bass. I think it was a new Ventura, and I know it was dirt cheap.
At some point, the plastic nut cracked, and most if not all of the strings had an ugly sound whenever I played an open string, so I did my best to never play an open string. I now realize this compensation still exists in my playstyle today, which undoubtedly enhances my desire to play a 5-string.
And I won't even get into the fact that, being self-taught, I disliked using my pinkie for anything at all, so I never use it. Ever. But my hands are so big, it doesn't cause me a huge problem. I'm sure I would play better if I learned to use it, but so far I think what I'm doing is good enough, so why fix something that isn't broken?
Sorry for the digression, but it's what I do.
Way back in the 70s I bought my first bass. I think it was a new Ventura, and I know it was dirt cheap.
At some point, the plastic nut cracked, and most if not all of the strings had an ugly sound whenever I played an open string, so I did my best to never play an open string. I now realize this compensation still exists in my playstyle today, which undoubtedly enhances my desire to play a 5-string.And I won't even get into the fact that, being self-taught, I disliked using my pinkie for anything at all, so I never use it. Ever. But my hands are so big, it doesn't cause me a huge problem. I'm sure I would play better if I learned to use it, but so far I think what I'm doing is good enough, so why fix something that isn't broken?
Sorry for the digression, but it's what I do.
Trying to be witty in TB is a dangerous game!
Personally I learned on a 4 string. I played only 4 string basses for untold years. And therefore if I play 4 strings EVERYBODY needs to play one! All those with more than 4 strings are posers!
(Luckily I no longer play 4 strings so now nobody needs to play one!)
The part of this discussion that addresses playing open strings has shaken a memory deep in the recesses of my mind and enabled me to do some analysis of how I play and why.
Way back in the 70s I bought my first bass. I think it was a new Ventura, and I know it was dirt cheap.
And I won't even get into the fact that, being self-taught, I disliked using my pinkie for anything at all, so I never use it. Ever. But my hands are so big, it doesn't cause me a huge problem. I'm sure I would play better if I learned to use it, but so far I think what I'm doing is good enough, so why fix something that isn't broken?
Sorry for the digression, but it's what I do.
Self awareness comes before self improvement. If being good enough is good enough, then good (enough), but don't think of it as broken or not broken. You don't wait until your car breaks down before doing any work on it, do you? (Do you?) Practice is the same thing as preventative maintenance. You're sure you would play better if you learn to use your pinkie, so do it. Just know that your pinkie is 40 years behind the rest of your fingers, so it's going to take the same concentration you used 40 years ago to learn the bass originally -- which means you'll probably feel like a klutz sometimes, but stick with it. It'll be good for you.
W-w-w-whoa! My brain isn't up for introspection and honest self-evaluation today!
j/k Good points, and thanks.
We should all get together one day and do a challenge. Me with a 5 and those of you with a 4 that go back and forth to drop d and see just how much "painfully" longer (sarcasm)it takes me to drop my e string to drop d compared to you doing the same on a 4 string.
Sippin' On Fire is a fiver tuned flat too.
Tuning & learning isn't really the challenge as much as having gear that cleanly but forcefully delivers those tones live.
Country Music has changed and will continue to change. I would blame Rock music throwing rock 'n' roll to the curb and embracing alternative in its many forms and moving away from its Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, and Jerry Lee Lewis roots. Today's Country has filled that void along with pop tones that are currently being used. I'd say however, IMO & all that, Miranda Lambert's Heart Like Mine, and Florida-Georgia Line's Dirt capture a soul that has always been southern and thus, gets a positive response. We could call today's Country Southern Pop 'cause that's largely what it is.
When gigging live, if we went full bore into a set of Cash, Haggard, Owens and Jones, we'd empty that place faster'n a Presidential address could.
Cash is always strong floor is packed n hootin and hollerin (we're just workin on one piece at a time and I'm arranging a solo bass version of his cover of Hurt)
Haggard not so much, Willie yep, Patsy Cline is always a winner as well as Tammy Wynette...Hank, Bocephus, Dwight n other honky tonk goes over well too
but we're in the San Joaquin area of norCal --- we pander to the audience as we should if we want to keep workin.
I agree with most of what you have said above the part that I bold faced. My comments had more to do with why I don't like modern county. Several things have turned me away from new country, but foremost among them is the sound of the B string and downtuning. I don't mean to downplay other people's tastes in music, but I simply despise the sound of five string basses as they are played and mixed in new country bands. Actually, I don't recall many bass players actually using the B string in much of anything except new country.
Now as for the bolded part, I have to totally disagree with you as that statement relates to the area where I live. We have small theaters popping up all over the place where bands come and play exactly those artists and types of songs. The audience is usually older and they just sit and listen, for the most part. I'm currently starting a band to cater to these audiences. The link below is of two brothers from my hometown who have been going gangbusters for a few years now, and they stay booked constantly. In fact, they toured with and opened for Merle Haggard for a couple of years, at Merle's request. They now have their own backing band and are touring all over the USA.
In the venues our band works, and it's a modest 35-40 shows in a typical year ranging from civic gigs to weddings to club work (when it can't be avoided), the youngsters clamour for the new stuff. We do some classics but, they are a small percentage of our 30-40+ song set 'cause that's the market here. Elsewhere, heck I don't know. We cater to this audience 'cause that's who hiring & paying.
The low 'B' I think comes from Church and the nature of Gospel Music. Or, it may simply be for musical affect as that's the trend. It really isn't a bother as these things come & go as the popular scene evolves. Even in these 3-5 minute 1-5-3-2 southern pop tunes gushing "Baby" this and "truck bed" that, there is still some damn fine playing and great pop songs come out of that. Lyrically, it isn't pathological like a lot of rock & alternative is these days and that makes it palatable to play.
What was this thread about again?
Who knows. Anyway, we'll probably be doing some of the newer stuff, but you can bet it will be done on a 4-banger.
Same with Luke Bryan "That's My Kinda Night."
Jason Aldean "She's Country" and "Johnny Cash."
Jason Aldean "She's Country" and "Johnny Cash."
I don't know about the "painful" part; but, most cover bands I work in do not want to wait for the bass player to retune between songs. Folks leave the dance floor in a hurry when nothing is going on. This is just a reality.
I was referring to those 4 string players that seem to think by playing a 5 you cannot tune the e to drop d. Now a lot of drop d songs I can easily play in standard beadg but some songs are easier to play bdadg. For example I can play several Tool and RATM songs just fine in beadg but some of those bands other songs I can play decently but loose some of the groove because of the original tuning of the song. So they are easier to play in drop d. People seem to forget 5 strings have everything a 4 string has. The same can't be said for the opposite. Now yeah not all music calls for a low b string , but most modern music ranging from country to metal does make use of the low b string. That's not to say you can't tune a 4 string down, but then you lose the g string
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Absolutely true. All I was saying is that retuning the E on the 5 is somewhat impractical in a dance cover band context, due to the lack of time between tunes. Believe me, I WISH HipShot had the E detuner for a 5. That would be the whole deal. Totally agree with you that while drop D tunes can be covered on the 5 in standard tuning, they are more easily phrased using the drop tuning. I'm all about whatever works.
I've seen them. I've even seen ones that drop the e to d and the b to a simultaneously
