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BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,350
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
Sounds like you've got this all handled then.
I really think you should email or call Nordstrand; I've done so in the past and found them to be super-helpful.
If you're having this problem then there must be other folks out there with these pups who do too, and Carey would probably (1) want to know about it and (2) have some helpful suggestions.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,350
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
If you have to use heavier strings or jack your action, I don't think it's solving your issue...you're just making compromises to get it passable. While the action isn't Carey's issue, if his pickups create the issue, it certainly should be someone you talk with about figuring out how it works.
I'd also have taken a reading on your interface with your old pickups dialed in and then again with the new ones... If your output is hotter with the new ones, dial them back until it's got the same output level (flux and output are definitely connected). I kind of fast forwarded through a bunch of your video...so I didn't see how well the strings were re-seated, stretched, etc. But I have a bass that is extra tweaky when it comes to such behaviors and can indeed act similarly on some strings when not done just right.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,350
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
I was looking at your 'relief' picture and I can't quite tell from looking at it what's going on. Yes you have the strings on and up to pitch? Also, measuring relief at the 12th fret isn't really going to give you a solid idea of what it is. I'm usually eyeballing mine around the 7th which is closer to the middle of your neck.
I sent the email. I also posted pics and a video here but everyone seems to have gone quiet now. This is super interesting and hopefully we can all learn something here.
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,020
- 1
- 31,740
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
I for one appreciate the measurements and the video. If I were experiencing this problem, I would probably just add a bit of relief and be on my way. But not everybody is as casual as I am about that.
OP, it sounds to me like you're getting the warbling/phasing issue when plucking up the neck, which I described on pg.1.
That is indicative of too much pickup pull on the string. The pickups should be backed off until that isn't happening, or is barely happening on your lowest string up high where you'd normally never play it. If you do so, how's the buzzing at that point?
That is indicative of too much pickup pull on the string. The pickups should be backed off until that isn't happening, or is barely happening on your lowest string up high where you'd normally never play it. If you do so, how's the buzzing at that point?
TO THE OP: Thanks for posting the video (page 6 of this thread).
I was extremely skeptical. I have NEVER heard of anything like magnets causing fret buzz, but despite my skepticism, the video you've supplied - and your comments in the thread - seem to support your assertion.
I don't have any doubts that the neck pickup is either causing the issue or heavily exacerbating an other issue - I'm sort of leaning to the latter.
I apologize in advance as I haven't gone back through the thread and read all of the OPs responses, but has the OP tried putting the pickups in, setting them to the recommended height, and then getting it completely set up with the pickups in?
Is it possible that the magnets are pulling the strings just enough to bring out an issue with a slight back bow in the neck, or an otherwise unknown fret/neck straightness issue?
I suppose I'm still somewhat skeptical that the pickup can cause the whole problem due solely on the strength of the magnetic field alone. Obviously it's possible, especially after seeing the video, it still seems unlikely on its own, but what do I know?
To the OP: I definitely recommend with others that your contact Nordy and give them as much info as possible, and I would recommend also getting a second opinion from a well known luthier in your area.
Very very weird indeed - good luck getting it resolved.
I was extremely skeptical. I have NEVER heard of anything like magnets causing fret buzz, but despite my skepticism, the video you've supplied - and your comments in the thread - seem to support your assertion.
I don't have any doubts that the neck pickup is either causing the issue or heavily exacerbating an other issue - I'm sort of leaning to the latter.
I apologize in advance as I haven't gone back through the thread and read all of the OPs responses, but has the OP tried putting the pickups in, setting them to the recommended height, and then getting it completely set up with the pickups in?
Is it possible that the magnets are pulling the strings just enough to bring out an issue with a slight back bow in the neck, or an otherwise unknown fret/neck straightness issue?
I suppose I'm still somewhat skeptical that the pickup can cause the whole problem due solely on the strength of the magnetic field alone. Obviously it's possible, especially after seeing the video, it still seems unlikely on its own, but what do I know?
To the OP: I definitely recommend with others that your contact Nordy and give them as much info as possible, and I would recommend also getting a second opinion from a well known luthier in your area.
Very very weird indeed - good luck getting it resolved.
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Relief won't help way up the neck. It sounds like when he plucks past the 12th fret the string is barely able to ring out.
Agreed. Having a particular kind of pickup shouldn't limit your choice of strings or setup. Or, if a pickup does limit these, it should be advertised as such. I'm eager to hear what Nordstrand has to say....
TL/DR: There's warbling/phasing on the higher notes so the pickups are far too high no matter what else is or isn't going on.
OP, can you back the pickups down until there's no warbling/phasing of notes up the neck?
Pickups should have a recommended distance to strings from the manufacturer. What you prefer may vary considerably per your ears and string composition and tension, but it's a good start.
To me any other measurements are virtually useless when doing setups because it's all so personal with so many variables, unless it's the same bass for the same player with the same strings playing the same music, but the pickup-to-string distance matters for tone at least and if Nordstrand gives you a recommended number then great. If not - and I'd be shocked - then please ask him why not.
In the meantime, back the pickups down until that warble is gone. That sound effect will happen long before there's enough magnetic pull to create buzzing, so if you eliminate the phasing sound it should be in the ballpark of correct string-to-pickup distance *and* definitely not affect buzzing at that distance.
OP, can you back the pickups down until there's no warbling/phasing of notes up the neck?
Pickups should have a recommended distance to strings from the manufacturer. What you prefer may vary considerably per your ears and string composition and tension, but it's a good start.
To me any other measurements are virtually useless when doing setups because it's all so personal with so many variables, unless it's the same bass for the same player with the same strings playing the same music, but the pickup-to-string distance matters for tone at least and if Nordstrand gives you a recommended number then great. If not - and I'd be shocked - then please ask him why not.
In the meantime, back the pickups down until that warble is gone. That sound effect will happen long before there's enough magnetic pull to create buzzing, so if you eliminate the phasing sound it should be in the ballpark of correct string-to-pickup distance *and* definitely not affect buzzing at that distance.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,350
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
Not all pickups are a great fit for all basses either, But as someone who uses high output high flux neo pickups there should be a 'place' for these without a problem. I'm also not super confident in that relief measurement. And while yes, doesn't effect the upper reaches of the neck, a measurement at the 12th fret isn't all that useful, given it's 2/3rds up the neck.
Really interested to see how this turns out @Drop1. Thanks for the video too.
The 'snark' is high in this thread
The 'snark' is high in this thread
This is the relief at the 5th, 6th and 7th fret. Keep in mind, with the pickups out, there is no issue.
To those that haven't read the previous post, lowering the pickups does help, but even bottomed out the issue is there.
Adding relief has very marginal affect. I have to more than double it to get a noticable change in results. This also raises the action quite a bit. Doing to puts me with an action of 4 to 5 mm.
Theres no way there is a measurable affect on the static string with 30 plus pounds of tension.
It has to be the magnetic field working with the elliptical movement of the string while it's in motion.
The Barts cannot pick up a single e string. The Nords have no problem holding full sets. There is definitely a substantial difference.
To those that haven't read the previous post, lowering the pickups does help, but even bottomed out the issue is there.
Adding relief has very marginal affect. I have to more than double it to get a noticable change in results. This also raises the action quite a bit. Doing to puts me with an action of 4 to 5 mm.
Theres no way there is a measurable affect on the static string with 30 plus pounds of tension.
It has to be the magnetic field working with the elliptical movement of the string while it's in motion.
The Barts cannot pick up a single e string. The Nords have no problem holding full sets. There is definitely a substantial difference.
