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Orange Isobaric Cabs, SP212, SP410 questions

#22
A lot of cool info in this thread guys, thanks. Out of curiosity, I emailed Orange just to ask what they had to say on these cabs behalf. I explained what you all told me about the principles involved and so on, and asked how they stacked up in the real world to comparable cabs.

I'm not sure whether I believe everything they say here, but they did respond with a lengthy answer in less than 20 minutes, so that's gotta count for something. Now if only I could bring myself to completely trust a sales rep, haha. Included here, for your reading pleasure is the complete transcript of their response:

Thanks for your inquiry.

I understand your concern about our Isobaric cabs and I can tell you that there's not much to worry about when it comes to volume output. We've been playing these cabs for a little more than a month and they are LOUD. Also, although you may get the "tone" of a single 12" speaker from our 212 iso cab, you get the "punch" of two 12" speakers. That extra "umph" from the back speaker certainly does add up when it comes to overall output, both in volume and tonal quality.

All of our Isobaric cabs are good for live gigging. I've heard them to rock and metal. What I can't confirm is how they perform for jazz. So far I've heard them break-up pretty early (like other Orange cabs) when being played with an Orange Bass Terror. That leads me to believe that they are mostly for rock.

I personally prefer 10" speakers, and when it comes to the Iso cabs my opinion stays the same. The 210 cab is awesome because it IS so small and yet it puts out a huge sound. The 410 cab, on the other hand, is just plain killer. The best of all of them by far. You could play it in an arena, haha.

The 212 is just a little too "in between" for me. But if you like 12" speakers, it will work swimmingly.

Cheers!
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#25
Petebass said:
The laws of physics don't change for anyone, nope not even salesmen :)
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Perhaps the physicists have yet to determine a proper equation that defines "umph"? :hmm:

That said, I would like to try one. The neo speakers are keeping the weight down to a reasonable level, and the idea of a cab that takes up minimal van space is at least intriguing. According to a european site these clock in at 29kg, or about 64 lbs... which is still less than an Eden 210, and only slight more than an Aggie DB 210. The only truly prohibitive thing against it is the PRICE.

EDIT: nevermind about the eden weight, i had my facts twisted. they're actually right around 60 i believe.
 
#26
An isobaric speaker is an accepted improvement over that majority of enclosures used in most mainstream cabinets.

Most cabinet types (reflex, transmission line, ABR etc.) are designed to try and avoid the fact that the ideal volume of a sealed speaker cabinet to maintain the resonant frequency of a driver is very large, and generally impractical. They also attempt to boost the reduced bass response created by a small cabinet by taking advantage of the rear radiation of drivers by ivnerting the phase. However these techniques are compromises, adding both linear distortion (reducing transient response), and adding phase distortion.

An Isobaric loudspeaker avoids the need for a large enclosure as the inner driver's movement in phase with the outer driver creates an isobaric chamber (chamber of constant pressure), creating an effective infinite baffle for the outer drivier. The outer driver therefore maintains it's minmum phase and is free of linear distortion, whilst having an effective doubling of mass, lowering it's resonant frequency compared to the driver alone.

Whether these cabs achieve this, i have no idea.
 
#27
Robin UK said:
An isobaric speaker is an accepted improvement over that majority of enclosures used in most mainstream cabinets.

Most cabinet types (reflex, transmission line, ABR etc.) are designed to try and avoid the fact that the ideal volume of a sealed speaker cabinet to maintain the resonant frequency of a driver is very large, and generally impractical.
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This information is very much out of date, by about 20 years.

Isobarics were reasonably popular in the hi-fi DIY realm when driver technology did make 10 cubic foot and larger cabs a necessity to reach down low. Using two drivers in an isobaric alignment does halve the required net cabinet volume, but with exactly the same response, sensitivity and output as one driver. Going from a ten cubic foot to a five cubic foot box did have it's benefits, especially in home hi-fi vis-a-vis WAF. Doing so with pro-sound in general, and electric bass in particular, never caught on, since what pros wanted was maximum output for the dollar spent, and box size was secondary.
Fast forward 20 years: Driver technology advances have rendered isobarics even less attractive, since what required a 10 cubic foot box then only takes 2 cubic feet today.

As for the response from the manufacturer, it would have some cachet if accompanied by actual measured response and maximum output charts. Without same to back up unsubstantiated claims of improved performance compared to standard cabs said claims remain just that.
 
#29
ishouldbeking said:
Such as? I'm not afraid to derail my own thread...;)

No but seriously, I've tossed around the idea of 210's and 112's as a standalone for a rock band, but most on here have been dismissive that it would get loud or low enough to compete with guitar and drums. That was why these "magical" cabinets looked so appealing. Given I don't need anything ultra deep, just some reasonable low mids to get that vintage punch.
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Look into a used Epifani NYC 310. Compact, tight and CHEAP (one here locally for $325).
 
#30
billfitzmaurice said:
This information is very much out of date, by about 20 years.

Isobarics were reasonably popular in the hi-fi DIY realm when driver technology did make 10 cubic foot and larger cabs a necessity to reach down low. Using two drivers in an isobaric alignment does halve the required net cabinet volume, but with exactly the same response, sensitivity and output as one driver. Going from a ten cubic foot to a five cubic foot box did have it's benefits, especially in home hi-fi vis-a-vis WAF. Doing so with pro-sound in general, and electric bass in particular, never caught on, since what pros wanted was maximum output for the dollar spent, and box size was secondary.
Fast forward 20 years: Driver technology advances have rendered isobarics even less attractive, since what required a 10 cubic foot box then only takes 2 cubic feet today.

As for the response from the manufacturer, it would have some cachet if accompanied by actual measured response and maximum output charts. Without same to back up unsubstantiated claims of improved performance compared to standard cabs said claims remain just that.
Click to expand...

I can't even begin to express how great it is having such knowledgeable insight into the inner workings of this stuff. Reminds me just how great TB can be... thanks!
 
#31
Having played many 410 cabs( Ampeg, Ashdown, Edan, Fender, Aguilr...but not a Fitzmaurice.. yet) The Orange Sp410 really takes the cake... now Im not crazy over the 210 or the 212 models they are really lacking IMO ... but the sp410 comes to life... I love tone, the thump, the size, the weight, the look,...They really got this one right! ..
 
#32
SpamBot said:
Hey Bill, would an isobaric 2x 3015LF cab make a good sub? It seems like that'd work well, especially since you could dump 2kW into it. I'm thinking more small PA here, rather than large bass rig.
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Step 1:- Work out what cab size that particular driver needs as a 1x15.

Step 2:- If that box size seems too big, contemplate an Isobaric version to save space.

That driver doesn't need a massive box in a typical vented enclosure (from memory a bit over 100 litres using SBB4.... what's that , about 3.5cu feet). A cab half that size would probably struggle to fit 2x15's in it.

If extra power handling is your priority, consider using a normal 2x15 sub, or two separate 1x15 cabs.
 

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