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...He was with Sonny Rollins and Elvin Jones at the Village Vanguard. In trio. Enough to be happy...
Looks to me like that fingerboard has one more good dressing in it. Pretty thin.
Also: "We would like to feature Wilbur right now in a little thing we hope you all will be familiar with: Softly as in a Morning Sunrise."
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Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
A good setup is one that allows the player to do what he or she wants to do on the instrument as efficiently as possible. It could be setup high or low, with bright or dark strings or whatever. A particular player may find it easiest to play a bass with high, stiff strings because it feels right.
Generally, a 'jazz setup' is one with less fingerboard scoop and lower strings. 'Orchestra' would be more scoop, higher strings and a high arch at the bridge for bowing. I see a 'jazz' setup more similar to what a solo player might choose. One setup values more facility on the instrument and the other extreme values power and depth of tone.
However, these are gross generalizations. Rabbath plays steel strings low and it won't be hard to find a jazz player preferring a higher setup.
Generally, a 'jazz setup' is one with less fingerboard scoop and lower strings. 'Orchestra' would be more scoop, higher strings and a high arch at the bridge for bowing. I see a 'jazz' setup more similar to what a solo player might choose. One setup values more facility on the instrument and the other extreme values power and depth of tone.
However, these are gross generalizations. Rabbath plays steel strings low and it won't be hard to find a jazz player preferring a higher setup.
Probably my favorite bass solo ever. Sam Jones on Jeanine is the other contender.
- Aug 1, 2005
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Just because Mr. Ware could do amazing things on an incredibly poor setup doesn't mean that said setup should be emulated!
In orchestra they never use amp, in jazz 50% is with amp this affect the setup.
Using amp there is no need to push a lot to have volume so low action and steel strings are ok and good for fast passages.
But who play w/o amplifier with drummer and horn player couldnt have low action.
Wilbur Ware or Mingus or Oscar Pettiford or Jimmy Blanton or or or all they was using higher setup as much as they can play because during 40’s and immediately later the organic sound was a value and a need.
Just watch youtube.
Using amp there is no need to push a lot to have volume so low action and steel strings are ok and good for fast passages.
But who play w/o amplifier with drummer and horn player couldnt have low action.
Wilbur Ware or Mingus or Oscar Pettiford or Jimmy Blanton or or or all they was using higher setup as much as they can play because during 40’s and immediately later the organic sound was a value and a need.
Just watch youtube.
I'd like to bump this with a general question, that is not exactly ot, but maybe an extension of the topic.
I am struggling with the sound of a pricey carved Wilfer bass, with Schertler Dyn-B pickup and whatnot. In the context of Jazz combo my second bass, which is an instrument of much lower build and sound quality, sounds and cuts significantly better, even with a cheap Bass Max pickup.
I am not talking about setup or action height - would you think that it is possible that there might be really good high quality instruments that do excellent in orchestra, but would sound too muddy and low in a trio, just by the amount of low end they have?
I am struggling with the sound of a pricey carved Wilfer bass, with Schertler Dyn-B pickup and whatnot. In the context of Jazz combo my second bass, which is an instrument of much lower build and sound quality, sounds and cuts significantly better, even with a cheap Bass Max pickup.
I am not talking about setup or action height - would you think that it is possible that there might be really good high quality instruments that do excellent in orchestra, but would sound too muddy and low in a trio, just by the amount of low end they have?
Yes.
Too much sub bass can make a bass hard to amplify. A contact mic like a DYN-B will make this problem even worse, in my experience.
The problem with pickups including contact mics are that they pick up more bass energy than what is radiated to the listener. So the bass needs to be cut anyway (except if there is already a fixed filter built-in to the preamp).
The Dyn-B is not the mist popular contact mic and sound is highly dependent on placement. Directly near the bass bar (but not on the bass bar) at any distance to the bridge leg is a good position to try for a contact mic.
The preferred sound for a section is often rather dark, probably too dark for jazz. And some pickups cut the few highs and high mids and that makes the bass sound muddy amplified.
I have a 4/4, 110cm scale Emanuel Wilfer 5-string with a high C (so no low B) and I’m often told how good the bass sounds.
Presence is also highly depending on soundpost position (and length). At the beginning the pizz was very present on my instrument, but bowing Spiros was a bit hard. I got the soundpost put in some more distance to the bridge leg and bowing became easier, I no longer needed two-element-pickups but the pizz had less of a cannon as it was before. Not bad, but sometimes I would like to have a bit back of that presence.
I would try a different pickup (but without rubber coating) or at least a different contact mic position close to a stiff part of the top (bass bar, soundpost). If you amplify cut the bass, probably a lot, and amplify at least a bit of high mids and maybe highs too (for the attack).
BTW, I use Innovation chromesteel wound strings (like Braided and Polychromes) and that works well for bowing and jazz pizz.
The Dyn-B is not the mist popular contact mic and sound is highly dependent on placement. Directly near the bass bar (but not on the bass bar) at any distance to the bridge leg is a good position to try for a contact mic.
The preferred sound for a section is often rather dark, probably too dark for jazz. And some pickups cut the few highs and high mids and that makes the bass sound muddy amplified.
I have a 4/4, 110cm scale Emanuel Wilfer 5-string with a high C (so no low B) and I’m often told how good the bass sounds.
Presence is also highly depending on soundpost position (and length). At the beginning the pizz was very present on my instrument, but bowing Spiros was a bit hard. I got the soundpost put in some more distance to the bridge leg and bowing became easier, I no longer needed two-element-pickups but the pizz had less of a cannon as it was before. Not bad, but sometimes I would like to have a bit back of that presence.
I would try a different pickup (but without rubber coating) or at least a different contact mic position close to a stiff part of the top (bass bar, soundpost). If you amplify cut the bass, probably a lot, and amplify at least a bit of high mids and maybe highs too (for the attack).
BTW, I use Innovation chromesteel wound strings (like Braided and Polychromes) and that works well for bowing and jazz pizz.
Thanks Co. and Double for replies
It is true - the dyn-B sounded worst on my Wilfer. I tried it with stat-B as well, that was a bit better. Eventually I found myself setting up a piezo, and it still sounded better .... and still not as good as my other bass sounds amplified.
A while ago I even tried to tame the sound with a ToneDexter, but that didn't really help.
There were expensive silk Schertler strings on the cheap bass - because I thought it'd make the sound smoother. And there were standard "mittel" Spiro on the other. A couple of days agoI decided to change. Now both instruments sound al LOT better, and even the amplified sound of the cheap bass got much rounder and deeper. I'll have to see if the amplified sound of the Wilfer has improved too.
The frustrating thing is to buy a good and pricey instrument in order to have that deep and dark high end growl
and in the end it is too dark ...
It is true - the dyn-B sounded worst on my Wilfer. I tried it with stat-B as well, that was a bit better. Eventually I found myself setting up a piezo, and it still sounded better .... and still not as good as my other bass sounds amplified.
A while ago I even tried to tame the sound with a ToneDexter, but that didn't really help.
There were expensive silk Schertler strings on the cheap bass - because I thought it'd make the sound smoother. And there were standard "mittel" Spiro on the other. A couple of days agoI decided to change. Now both instruments sound al LOT better, and even the amplified sound of the cheap bass got much rounder and deeper. I'll have to see if the amplified sound of the Wilfer has improved too.
The frustrating thing is to buy a good and pricey instrument in order to have that deep and dark high end growl
and in the end it is too dark ...Too dark is not the same as too fat. A bass can have a lot of sub bass and still have a lot of overtones, the same as a bass can sound thin and muffled at the same time.
A bass that doesn't work with a DYN-B, is probably also not going to work is a Realist, wich is a very common pickup. The more unusable sub-bass you have, the closer you want to have the pickup to the string.
At least in my experience.
@Co. of course you are right. I have a very dark fivestring wich i used as a very nice jazzbass for years. It had spiros and a Wilson pickup.
When i played the same bass with Flexocore deluxe, it had a nice pizz acoustically, but did not work through the amp at all. Playing through my big basstower was a desaster, with the small amp it was almost ok. Means, it needs a lot of hpf. Not so nice...
When i played the same bass with Flexocore deluxe, it had a nice pizz acoustically, but did not work through the amp at all. Playing through my big basstower was a desaster, with the small amp it was almost ok. Means, it needs a lot of hpf. Not so nice...
