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Double Bass order of components in the chain/effect chain

Selim

Selim

Supporting Member
Jun 2, 2008
2,072
2,064
New York City
#1
I've recently returned to the DB after a career playing BG and could use some help from more knowledgable folks while I'm exploring getting a good amplified sound together. I'm using Spirocores, a Full Circle, Aguilar tonehammer 500 into an AI Upshot.

I have a few questions for which maybe there's no right or wrong, just personal preference derived from what sounds good to the player:

1) If I'm using an HPF Pre S2 and a preamp (right now I'm working with a Fishman platinum pre), which one comes first in the chain? (Currently, it's FC -> HPF -> Fishman.)

2) the HPF is of course a high pass filter, but the Fishman also has a 3 position (30, 80, 160 Hz) fixed low cut filter. If I'm using the HPF as the primary device for low cut/high pass, does setting one of the 3 fixed frequencies on the Fishman's LCF make more sense than the others? Or just tune by ear?

3) HPF + Fishman + preamp stage of the Aguilar: that's 3 preamps! What is happening for me now is that the volume controls on the HPF and the Fishman are full up and the Aguilar preamp stage is practically off, which I guess means I'm only using the power section of the Aguilar (?) Does that make sense?

4) I haven't tried connecting these two devices thru the effects in/out. Is there a sonic advantage to either of these two connection methods?

I'm waiting for folks to say "just use your ears, buddy" -- and that's okay! But since we're all in this same boat, I'm hoping more experienced players will chime in with some tips.

Thanks!
Dave
 
#2
Since both HPFpre and Fishman have a 10 MegOhm input impedance it doesn't matter which comes first.
For the HPF/low cut not only the frequency is important but also the steepness of the filter (dB/octave).

I don't think that you need both, should work as well with only one of them before your amp.
As far as I know the HPFpre is cleaner than the Fishman preamp.
On the other hand if there is an EQ section on the Fishman (I cannot remember which model has what kind of controls), you get some additional control over the HPFpre.

As you already know, try it and listen, but I would only use both units in a chain if this is absolutely needed (which I don't think it's the case).

It doesn't matter if you put one unit in the effect loop or in front of the amp as long as there is one preamp in front of your amp for the high impedance input. So don't experiment with this.

For volume, the HPFpre has a mild 3dB boost, the Fishman has more, so a full volume can overload the amps input. A 50 to 70 percent setting should be the normal case with room for a boost if needed.
 
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#3
Good advice above. I would try to eliminate either the Fishman or the ToneHammer from the chain (probably the Fishman), unless doing so sounds worse than using both. Only way to figure that out is lots of experimenting. When working with HP filters, just use your ears, and realize that they often work best when gradually set higher the louder you are playing; what is a pleasing amount of lows at low volume can become mud or worse at a higher volume.

Regarding the FX loop there are two ways to do it:
1) Straight into the FX return bypasses the preamp and EQ of the amp. If your pedal signal is better sounding than the preamp of the amp, this is often a good move; the advantage is that you bypass the preamp/EQ section on the amp by inserting in this way; the disadvantage is that you usually have to listen for distortion as the only means of deciding where to set your input signal.
2) Put both into the FX loop - I use a Sansamp Paradriver and Fdeck this way. This method works for me on local gigs because I like the front end of the combo amp normally use. I keep the EQ flat, and because the amp has an input clip indicator, I know where to set the input for maximum clean signal before distortion. It takes some experimenting.
 
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#6
Povl Carstensen said:
Which means I would defintely see if I could get a good sound out of the S2/Aguilar combination.
Click to expand...

Chris Fitzgerald said:
Good advice above. I would try to eliminate either the Fishman or the ToneHammer from the chain (probably the Fishman)
Click to expand...

DoubleMIDI said:
I don't think that you need both, should work as well with only one of them before your amp.
As far as I know the HPFpre is cleaner than the Fishman preamp.
Click to expand...

I took your advice and no surprise to you all, I'm getting a very good, workable sound with just the HPF pre into the Tonehammer. Surprisingly to me: with the TH's eq FLAT. To me, that's a good sign.
 
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#7
There is one option where two preamps would prove handful: if you wanted to use different HPF setting for FOH and for stage.

Sometimes, I do this in order to use HPF for speaker protection on stage. In such a case, I am sending FOH the signal from my EBS preamp (Fishman in your case). I am feeding my amp from EBS through HPF Pre set high. That way, the FOH gets "full" sound to work with and my stage amp gets signal with rather high HPF setting in order to protect speakers.
 
#14
A flanger is an effect. A HPF is EQ. I completely agree keeping the EQ simple is best but a HPF is something I’ve come to rely on amplifying an acoustic instrument. I’d be loath to do without one now.

My current signal path is Empress ParaEQ-Broughton HPF/LPF-Noble pre/DI-amp.
 
#15
Jeff Bonny said:
A flanger is an effect. A HPF is EQ. I completely agree keeping the EQ simple is best but a HPF is something I’ve come to rely on amplifying an acoustic instrument. I’d be loath to do without one now.

My current signal path is Empress ParaEQ-Broughton HPF/LPF-Noble pre/DI-amp.
Click to expand...
Yes well, I was trying to make a pun about "components beween your ears" (see post 12/9).
 
#16
Ideally, it's all in one box, which is more expensive, but less complicated in regards to the signal path. With the newer powered cabinets, and a Headway EDB-2, Grace Designs Felix, Acoustic Box II, or AI Flex.
One box does it a, with the exception of things like Flanging, etc. Just my take.
 
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#17
Povl Carstensen said:
Yes well, I was trying to make a pun about "components beween your ears" (see post 12/9).
Click to expand...
Right. As I hit send I was thinking that explaining this to you was a little presumptuous....

As for having all the bells and whistles in one box I’m not a huge fan of that. Being an inveterate sonic tinkerer separate components are much more appealing.
 
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#19
Jeff Bonny said:
Right. As I hit send I was thinking that explaining this to you was a little presumptuous....

As for having all the bells and whistles in one box I’m not a huge fan of that. Being an inveterate sonic tinkerer separate components are much more appealing.
Click to expand...
As a sonic tinkerer, I am a fan of having it all in one box, to stop tinkering.
 
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