Origin Effect DCX vs Darkglass Harmonic Booster as a standalone preamp into PA

[Artorias]

I’m currently using an Origin Effects BASSRIG Super Vintage into a QSC CP8 powered speaker. The volume and “amp feel” aspects are amazing with the QSC. I play at home only, so this suits my needs perfectly.

My primary bass is a EBMM Stingray Special 4 string with single pickup and active 18v preamp. I’m not very happy with what I’m getting out of the OE BassRig SV in terms of clean tone. If the EQ section affected the “dry” side of the blend, it’d be perfect. It does not however and I’m disappointed that I cannot seem to get a purely clean tone out of the OE while still being able to utilize the EQ.

This brings me to my question: I’m considering running either a OE DCX Bass or a Darkglass Harmonic Booster as my tone shaping preamp into the QSC powered speaker. I don’t use any other effects and BARELY ever use OD/distortion. Anyone have experience doing this? How does it work out and which do you prefer if you’ve tried both? I’d also like to hear people’s opinion on what they have tried if they’ve only tried one or the other.

 

[Kerem Koseoglu]

I happen to have published a video comparing those units, it might help a little.

 

[74hc]

I cannot imagine getting a preamp to FOH without a XLR out. FOH people where I gig prefer balanced.

I use a Tone Hammer, btw.

 

[Artorias]

I happen to have published a video comparing those units, it might help a little.

I’ll admit I am probably responsible for 75 of the views for this video!!! It is a great video comparison, and was one of the surprise videos that turned up in my feed when I searched for clean bass preamps and one of the major videos that turned me on to these two options.

I see in the video you’re running them with compression, then into another preamp (albeit a more transitional amp-sim sort of preamp).

For my specific use, I’m wondering if anyone has ever gone direct with these. I don’t use compression and really don’t use effects. The issue I had with my Origin Super Vintage was that the EQ only affects the wet/dirty side of the blend. I get that this preamp was designed to replicate how an SVT works, so I was scratching my head thinking “why not just NOT have a blend if it’s not going to have any sort of tone shaping capabilities other than shaping the dirty side of things”… so, in essence, I found myself running the blend all the way to the right to get the EQ full tone shaping impact on my signal, but running the drive at zero which still resulted in grit. But, to blend more towards the non-dirty side, I’m mixing in a completely unaffected by EQ signal.

Amazing sounding preamp for what it does (probably THE best out there), but it just wasn’t working for me.

Anyway, now I’m here trying to find what basically amounts to a very simple, yet well-thought out EQ pedal to run my bass into and then directly into my powered speaker. I’m looking for something easy to dial in that stays really clean even if I’m fully utilizing the tone shaping functionality. My Stingray straight into the powered speaker sounds decent, but being basically a full range speaker, I’m getting loads of extended frequencies. Thankfully, I’m not experiencing any “woof” or boominess if that makes sense. I am however getting a very… in your face… higher end that really stands out in kind of an annoying way. Nothing harsh or grating, but the mids are seeming to take a back seat to the upper mids and low treble (sorry, that’s the best way I can think to describe it).

My goals are:
1) easy to work with and simple

2) sweetens/thickens the mids

3) helps low end stand out w/o becoming wooly or boomy. Thick, but tight

4) tames and sweetens the treble

5) allows control of the mids and helps them stand out OR have inherently nice mids built in.

I have looked into many preamp pedals and many of them seem like wasted functionality for what I’m after, or too much if the focus is on the drive side of things. I have agonized over another Darkglass preamp, but I’m thinking that Darkglass tone most of their preamps are known for (really high mid heavy and clanky) would be a poor match for the sound I’m going for… especially with an active single pickup stingray.

I’m really just wanting an amazing, clear, “enhanced”, beautiful, woody but modern clean tone that brings out the best in my bass.

 

[Artorias]

I cannot imagine getting a preamp to FOH without a XLR out. FOH people where I gig prefer balanced.

I use a Tone Hammer, btw.

I’m not going to a board or anything. I play ONLY at home for myself and sometimes along with my jazz drummer daughter. My QSC CP8 is perfect for this (plenty loud enough for both scenarios, sounds great at low volume, light and portable, flat and even sound). I’ve found most combo amps to be excessively boomy (my Ampeg rocket bass.., though getting it up off the floor helped somewhat with this) or I’m stuck with that single baked in sound due to the preamp/EQ being a permanent physical part of the amp. Since I move from room to room from time to time and my little area where I play is relatively small, the QSC on a speaker pole at ear level where I’m sitting is perfect. I was running XLR out from my OE Super Vintage into the QSC, and it worked great seeing as that’s the only way to get the built in cab sim from this preamp. I still often ran the 1/4” out into the QSC as well and it does not output the cab sim, which I found I kind of preferred. The cab sim seemed like it wasn’t really doing much outside muffling even more of the frequencies the inherent EQ of that preamp already does to give it that tube flavoring.

So, I’m not worried at all about outputs or cab sims for my specific use case. As long as it’s got either a XLR out or a 1/4” out, I’m set. I could see if I was having to run the signal into a board and monitor myself at the same time… or even just run into a mixing board, I’d don’t think it would work well in that case of course.

 

[DuluthDank]

The youtuber Philip Conrad has a video on his micro pedalboard, where he only uses a tuner and an Origin DCX. He seems happy with it. Other commenters here have said that the DCX can minimize the need for cab sims with the right EQ while running direct.

Myself, I have one and am impressed with it. Much to my surprise, as great as the clean preamp is, the OD mode is the best bass OD I've heard in a band mix by a long shot. I run it as my second gain stage into a Broughton SV Pre, which is always on. But it'd be great for which ever application you choose, as it is very usable across the whole gain range.



Although I haven't tried the Darglass you mentioned, I'd also suggest the Broughton SV Pre for your stated application. It's great for clean up to subtle breakup with way more EQ flexibility than the DCX, and at a lower price.

 

[HolmeBass]

Tech 21 Q Strip would be a super clean powerful EQ option, and probably has enough signal to adequately drive your power amp.

You could even run it into your existing box to match with the poweramp.

 

[74hc]

I’m not going to a board or anything. I play ONLY at home...

Sorry, my bad. I assumed PA meant there would be a FOH.

 

[Artorias]

Sorry, my bad. I assumed PA meant there would be a FOH.

No worries. I didn’t think about clarifying that until you commented. Technically PA, but I’m simply using it as a powered speaker cab for myself so I have the flexibility of preamp selection while maintaining portability within my house. Just a monitoring solution really. I’m glad you pushed me to consider that, though, since I think that’ll help clarify to anyone reading and possibly offering advice that I’m just looking for a certain enhancement and coloration.

 

[sloppy_phil]

I am however getting a very… in your face… higher end that really stands out in kind of an annoying way. Nothing harsh or grating, but the mids are seeming to take a back seat to the upper mids and low treble

Without trying to sound pedantic... I mean, that's basically what a StingRay is designed to do; aggressive, in your face treble, often at the expense of prominent mids. They can for sure be EQ'd differently to not be so extreme, but that sound you describe is more or less the "party trick" from that bass!

The DCX is definitely a powerful EQ tool, but in order to boost the mids, you'd have to use a sort of subtractive EQ, whereby you turn the lows and highs down (in your case, I'd reduce the highs much more than the lows) as a way to "boost" the midrange. As well, on the "EQ" side of the pedal, the gain knob has a lot of sweep/range before you start getting into actual grit/dirt. I could see it being useful.

But if you want more surgical/precise control over your midrange presence, between these two units, the DG is perhaps better suited, since you get actual midrange controls which the DCX doesn't have.

 

[GrowlerBox]

The Harmonic Booster is a really nice EQ that adds a real “sheen”, and I’m using it now on my everyday board. Even though it’s called a preamp, I’m not sure that it will properly drive a power amp on its own. For that, given your desire for a clean tone with flexible mid-control, I would pick the Genzler Magellan. It’s on my big board (replacing a Tone Hammer, which is still great, and another worthy option - the EQ does affect both clean and AGS circuits) and will drive a power amp all day, has a nice DI for recording (or FOH, of course, if your needs change), and a headphone out (which also works for tuners, if you don’t want one in the signal path). The EQ is nicely tuned, also has a sweepable mid, and an HPF (which I would not be without).

Another serious contender from my collection would be the API LLX. It doesn’t have a DI, but it will drive anything (up to 40 dB boost), and has a deceptively simple but very effective 3-band EQ. It’s one of those “special sauce” pedals, possibly due in part to its output transformer. I’ve just taken it off my everyday board to try some other things, but I suspect it will be back soon (with its CMP brother). One thing to mention is its “overdrive” circuit. Switching this in puts an API-designed opamp in the circuit without any additional control. Turning up the gain will drive it slightly (but then you have a lot of gain that may need to be attenuated downstream, as there’s no additional master volume), but it’s really there to allow you to push it into a pleasant overdrive with your upstream signal (say, from an 18 V Stingray preamp) like an analogue studio channel strip, which is effectively what the API is.

 

[ddnidd1]

The video doesn't show any of the powerful EQ available on the HB - particularly the Character control.

 

[sunbeast]

I’m currently using an Origin Effects BASSRIG Super Vintage into a QSC CP8 powered speaker. The volume and “amp feel” aspects are amazing with the QSC. I play at home only, so this suits my needs perfectly.

My primary bass is a EBMM Stingray Special 4 string with single pickup and active 18v preamp. I’m not very happy with what I’m getting out of the OE BassRig SV in terms of clean tone. If the EQ section affected the “dry” side of the blend, it’d be perfect. It does not however and I’m disappointed that I cannot seem to get a purely clean tone out of the OE while still being able to utilize the EQ.

This brings me to my question: I’m considering running either a OE DCX Bass or a Darkglass Harmonic Booster as my tone shaping preamp into the QSC powered speaker. I don’t use any other effects and BARELY ever use OD/distortion. Anyone have experience doing this? How does it work out and which do you prefer if you’ve tried both? I’d also like to hear people’s opinion on what they have tried if they’ve only tried one or the other.

Are you saying that the Stingray is too hot to get the Gain low enough with the Super Vintage? If so, just turn the volume down on the bass- one great thing about the volume control on an active Stingray is that it doesn't affect tone when turned down the same way a volume on a passive bass would.

 

[Artorias]

Are you saying that the Stingray is too hot to get the Gain low enough with the Super Vintage? If so, just turn the volume down on the bass- one great thing about the volume control on an active Stingray is that it doesn't affect tone when turned down the same way a volume on a passive bass would.

No, I’m not trying to imply the 18v stingray is too hot and is driving the preamp pedal into overdrive. It’s actually kind of crazy to me how clear and clean this bass is which I think was the point behind the move to 18v by EBMM (unless I completely misunderstood their explanation of this).

I think, as someone stated above, that the stingray inherently has a sort of slap friendly tone baked in (strong lows and highs, mids taking somewhat of a backseat). The issues I was experiencing with the OE Super Vintage is that I simply chose the wrong preamp for what I was trying to achieve.

It’s supposed to be mimicking an SVT and is fantastic at doing so. My issue was that running the blend knob all the way to the right in order to give me a completely EQ affected tone, and the drive at zero, was still giving me a little bit of breakup. That tube, just on the edge, breakup. If I want pristine clean, I’d have to start turning the blend knob counter-clockwise, which introduces more of the dry unaffected signal. The problem is that this dry, unaffected signal is not only unaffected by the drive knob, it is also unaffected by any EQ, so I lose shaping capabilities.

And, with the stingray’s inherent tone, and running straight into the powered speaker does give me a straight up clean tone that’s pleasant… I’m getting what I’d describe is too much range of frequencies and zero tone shaping aside from the bass’s built in EQ. I’m hearing too far into the low and high end, not in a harsh way, just frequencies you normally wouldn’t hear. It’s crystal clean, however, which is exactly what I’m after. I’d just like something to add character and enhance the tone before it gets to the powered speaker.

Hopefully that clarifies.

 

[GrowlerBox]

No, I’m not trying to imply the 18v stingray is too hot and is driving the preamp pedal into overdrive. It’s actually kind of crazy to me how clear and clean this bass is which I think was the point behind the move to 18v by EBMM (unless I completely misunderstood their explanation of this).

I think, as someone stated above, that the stingray inherently has a sort of slap friendly tone baked in (strong lows and highs, mids taking somewhat of a backseat). The issues I was experiencing with the OE Super Vintage is that I simply chose the wrong preamp for what I was trying to achieve.

It’s supposed to be mimicking an SVT and is fantastic at doing so. My issue was that running the blend knob all the way to the right in order to give me a completely EQ affected tone, and the drive at zero, was still giving me a little bit of breakup. That tube, just on the edge, breakup. If I want pristine clean, I’d have to start turning the blend knob counter-clockwise, which introduces more of the dry unaffected signal. The problem is that this dry, unaffected signal is not only unaffected by the drive knob, it is also unaffected by any EQ, so I lose shaping capabilities.

And, with the stingray’s inherent tone, and running straight into the powered speaker does give me a straight up clean tone that’s pleasant… I’m getting what I’d describe is too much range of frequencies and zero tone shaping aside from the bass’s built in EQ. I’m hearing too far into the low and high end, not in a harsh way, just frequencies you normally wouldn’t hear. It’s crystal clean, however, which is exactly what I’m after. I’d just like something to add character and enhance the tone before it gets to the powered speaker.

Hopefully that clarifies.

Another small count against the Harmonic Booster in your case, then, might be the seeming uselessness of the “character” control, which is essentially a mid-scoop (it seems to do some other things to the EQ curve as well, but these are small changes by comparison with the main event). That would not render the entire pedal useless, of course, and I find it helpful for switching between a pretty mid-forward G&L L1000 (more Character dialled in) and my piezo-only semi-hollow fretless Ibanez (much less Character needed) by using a single dial (although the compression and saturation settings are also different, but that’s a whole other thing …)

Not dissing the pedal at all, obviously, it just might not be the ideal tool for your job; IMO, of course.

 

[sunbeast]

No, I’m not trying to imply the 18v stingray is too hot and is driving the preamp pedal into overdrive. It’s actually kind of crazy to me how clear and clean this bass is which I think was the point behind the move to 18v by EBMM (unless I completely misunderstood their explanation of this).

I think, as someone stated above, that the stingray inherently has a sort of slap friendly tone baked in (strong lows and highs, mids taking somewhat of a backseat). The issues I was experiencing with the OE Super Vintage is that I simply chose the wrong preamp for what I was trying to achieve.

It’s supposed to be mimicking an SVT and is fantastic at doing so. My issue was that running the blend knob all the way to the right in order to give me a completely EQ affected tone, and the drive at zero, was still giving me a little bit of breakup. That tube, just on the edge, breakup. If I want pristine clean, I’d have to start turning the blend knob counter-clockwise, which introduces more of the dry unaffected signal. The problem is that this dry, unaffected signal is not only unaffected by the drive knob, it is also unaffected by any EQ, so I lose shaping capabilities.

And, with the stingray’s inherent tone, and running straight into the powered speaker does give me a straight up clean tone that’s pleasant… I’m getting what I’d describe is too much range of frequencies and zero tone shaping aside from the bass’s built in EQ. I’m hearing too far into the low and high end, not in a harsh way, just frequencies you normally wouldn’t hear. It’s crystal clean, however, which is exactly what I’m after. I’d just like something to add character and enhance the tone before it gets to the powered speaker.

Hopefully that clarifies.

I guess I wasn't clear, but that was indeed what I was asking- you are saying the Stingray is too hot for the Origin. I recommend just using the volume control on the Stingray bass to lower the volume (there should be little effect on the tone of the bass with the volume turned down) until the "SVT" is no longer clipping, no clean Blend needed. An SVT isn't inherently dirty (in fact the old ones are hard to run dirty unless you are playing very loud since they didn't have Gain control), and the SVT preamp EQ should actually be quite neutral with all the EQ controls centered and any cab-sim turned off.

 

[TonyP-]

Clean with tons of headroom.
Aguilar AG preamp pedal

 

[Artorias]

Clean with tons of headroom.
Aguilar AG preamp pedal

I’ll be looking into this. Honestly didn’t even know this existed before your comment; I always assumed Aguilar = Tone Hammer and I can’t stand that AGS circuit.

 

[TonyP-]

I’ll be looking into this. Honestly didn’t even know this existed before your comment; I always assumed Aguilar = Tone Hammer and I can’t stand that AGS circuit.

I bloody can’t stand the Tone Hammer.
I’m not the biggest fan of the amps.

However I like the AG and it sounds nothing like it.

 

[GrowlerBox]

I’ll be looking into this. Honestly didn’t even know this existed before your comment; I always assumed Aguilar = Tone Hammer and I can’t stand that AGS circuit.

I can’t make the Tone Hammer work for me as an overdrive (something about it just grates on my nerves), but with the AGS circuit switched in with almost no gain, it does add quite a nice, lightly compressed feel. Still, I completely get it .