It all depends on the musicians and, often times, the genres being played. Personally, I have just learned to ask for the key of the songs and, from there, I do everything by ear.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Original Bands - Is requesting Charts unrealistic for auditions?
- Thread starter Neon Blues
- Start date
If I'm the auditioner, I want some one to show up, ready to play the material. Shows that person is willing to put in time to learn on his/her own, and doesn't need to be shown what to do.
If I'm the auditionee, I want as much info on the tunes to be played as possible so I can jump in and not waist time.
After that, throwing out tunes to see how well I hear things, pick up changes, grooves, lines, is all fine.
If I'm the auditionee, I want as much info on the tunes to be played as possible so I can jump in and not waist time.
After that, throwing out tunes to see how well I hear things, pick up changes, grooves, lines, is all fine.
Response to OP -
Uhm, no it is not.
Here is how real auditions work :
A&R guy calls you. Shoots the poo. Asks if you do drugs a lot, stuff like that. Sends secure FTP link for downloading the bands tunes.
You learn the tunes and fly to the audition
That's how it goes. If you can't learn the tunes by ear, don't go into the world of original popular music. There are guys lined up waiting for that gig who had no problem figuring out the songs on their own.
Uhm, no it is not.
Here is how real auditions work :
A&R guy calls you. Shoots the poo. Asks if you do drugs a lot, stuff like that. Sends secure FTP link for downloading the bands tunes.
You learn the tunes and fly to the audition
That's how it goes. If you can't learn the tunes by ear, don't go into the world of original popular music. There are guys lined up waiting for that gig who had no problem figuring out the songs on their own.
The norm differs on genre and people you are dealing with. General the only bands that you can count on a chart would be jazz bands or cover bands. Even then it is not always the case.
Originals bands in general dont seem to have charts usually. If your lucky they can provide a lyric sheet with chords or something.
So the lesson here is that you have to be prepared to fly with AND without charts. Even better is to analyze the songs yourself and make your own chart. Most original rock bands probably have pretty simple harmonic progressions that you can pick up on.
Originals bands in general dont seem to have charts usually. If your lucky they can provide a lyric sheet with chords or something.
So the lesson here is that you have to be prepared to fly with AND without charts. Even better is to analyze the songs yourself and make your own chart. Most original rock bands probably have pretty simple harmonic progressions that you can pick up on.
Well said! I still feel a little guilty having to read out of the Real Book on jazz gigs though. Have to remember, the reason these are all "standards" was these were the tunes all those early jazz cats knew, by heart. But ya, there can be a running waterfall of chord changes in some of those standards, I'm still boggled when a cat can play many of them by memory or dissect it on the fly with their music theory powers. More power to ya' if you can.
I think it has more to do with original bands not knowing how to write or read music.
Edit: I just saw their posts and Harry, DaveW, and sevenyearsdown nail it.
I don't think I've ever been given a chart for an audition. I've never given charts when I'm doing auditions either. Unless you are doing extremely complex music then someone should be able to figure it out by ear. My current band I learned 15 originals for two auditions and the only thing I asked for was the key.
As much as I believe in the importance of being able to read and understand theory, I'm not interested in playing with people that can't figure a song out by ear.
As much as I believe in the importance of being able to read and understand theory, I'm not interested in playing with people that can't figure a song out by ear.
I've never been in an original band that writes out their songs on charts. Mainly because there is no need to. Everyone knows how to play the songs because they are the ones who wrote them.
I've played with guys who can sight read and play anything put in front of them but can't create an original song or even an interesting riff to save their lives. I've also played with guys that can't read a note of music but can hear something 2-3 times and then play it or even better yet, can come up with their own interesting original material. Those are two extremes but most original bands are looking for the latter type of guy.
According to your statement, the guy who can read and write music and come up with original material doesn't exist.
Last edited:
When I write songs, I chart them out. This way, I don't have to bother with making recordings. I'd hardly say my statement says the guy who can read and write music and come up with original material doesn't exist (although I concur they do not happen very often).
My experience has been that there are two approaches to writing originals. Chord based songs have a lyric sheet with chords written above the words (christian contempory, folk, bluegrass, etc...). Riff based songs (metal) usually get written down in tab (the guitarist's tab) if you are lucky. Often its the guitarist showing what notes he is playing and the bassist writes it down and then comes to the next rehearsal with their own parts figured out.
Now that I think about it, in this country, charts (vocal and piano reduction at least) are required to copyright a song, and I've still never seen one. Some people even make a little extra money making such charts for musicians who can't do it themselves. I was in one band that did make those, and I don't think they ever bothered pulling them out and showing them to my successor.
So, originals bands don't give you charts even when the law forces them to have charts. I know there are exceptions, but generally they're just really not into charts for whatever reason.
So, originals bands don't give you charts even when the law forces them to have charts. I know there are exceptions, but generally they're just really not into charts for whatever reason.
And that is what throws me about some people in original bands. Being able to read and write music can take out some of the guesswork and speed up parts of the learning process IMO.
Been only in original bands. Most of whom were all schooled musicians and multi instrumentalists these guys can write sheet music but never do.
There has been also on many occasions when someone has showed up to the studio to put something down like a clarinet, violin, guitar or whatever and have NEVER asked for charts or anything. They just listened to the track went in and laid it down.
I've never needed anything but my ears.
I've also never written any of my lyrics down either.
This is what throws me for a loop, as I would do this. I will acknowledge that I am something of an oddball in that department.
I am sure that there are originals bands all across the spectrum. I think that some of it has to do with the goal of the audition.
For example when I was writing more stuff on guitar I had a definite opinion about how all of the other parts should be played. I could see an established originals band wanting someone to basically "cover" their old band members parts. In that case having charts could make sense.
Most originals band are pushing to write more music and would want to know how the person fits in during that process. To some (including me these days) this would trump any ability to read charts.
For example when I was writing more stuff on guitar I had a definite opinion about how all of the other parts should be played. I could see an established originals band wanting someone to basically "cover" their old band members parts. In that case having charts could make sense.
Most originals band are pushing to write more music and would want to know how the person fits in during that process. To some (including me these days) this would trump any ability to read charts.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
Well said! I still feel a little guilty having to read out of the Real Book on jazz gigs though. Have to remember, the reason these are all "standards" was these were the tunes all those early jazz cats knew, by heart. But ya, there can be a running waterfall of chord changes in some of those standards, I'm still boggled when a cat can play many of them by memory or dissect it on the fly with their music theory powers. More power to ya' if you can.
My kid does that on his trumpet, while transposing on the fly. There's a reason he's a professional musician and I'm a day job type.
I once had an audition with a guy who had written a bunch of songs and didn't have any idea what key they were in, what chords he was playing or anything else. The music sounded pretty good, but if it was a mystery to the guy who wrote it, it seemed like it would be iffy for me to try contributing much. I find I'm usually the guy who explains the structure to the rest of the band these days. At least they know what chord the song starts on. That guy said he didn't. Go figure.
Spot on. The original project I'm on now has a great guitfiddle man who went to school, so he's totally capable of writing out a chord progression. Useful for a hired gun to easily come in and just read on the gig without ever rehearsing. But the composition process doesn't usually work like that. It's more like he just shows us a chord progression or riff he's been working on and we start jamming on it until it gets pretty. He might not even be able to tell us exactly what key he's really in because of the dreaded capo. So I noodle a little, find the roots and then it's off to the races.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
That sure sounds familiar! What's really funny is when the same guy forgets to put on the capo the next time, and the singer looks at him, then you, with this completely mystified look!
