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Original bands playing for free: a chronic problem

#381
beggar98 said:
No one says you should get paid to play as a hobby, but as soon as you play in a venue that is a for profit venture it's no longer a hobby. You've entered the professional world and done so at a cost to other musicians.
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No, "for profit venues" -- also known as bars and clubs -- are where bands play and where the audience is. It is ridiculous to say that a hobbyist has a moral obligation to voluntarily forego playing at all for profit venues just to make it easier for aspiring "pros" to make money.
 
#382
Wow, 380+ posts and everyone essentially arguing the same points over. How about this advice: "play your music, drink your free booze, sell some merch, keep your website updated, get a manager (or booking agency), tour a bit, see what happens."

Not to belabor the points. Much.
 
#383
Baron Von Vik said:
Wow, 380+ posts and everyone essentially arguing the same points over. How about this advice: "play your music, drink your free booze, sell some merch, keep your website updated, get a manager (or booking agency), tour a bit, see what happens."
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+1. Do what you can do to the best of your ability and inclination, and don't worry about supposed competition from weekend warriors. Seriously, if you aspire to be a "pro" musician and you are worried that my band of over-the-hill part-timers is "stealing" your gigs, you have bigger problems to worry about.
 
#384
aborgman said:
Yep... and semi-pro football players are doing so at a cost to professional football players, and housewives are doing it to hookers, and shadetree mechanics are doing it to real mechanics, and...

What I find hilarious is this idea that somehow the hobby musician has a moral/ethical duty to help out the professional musician.
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Well, except that semi-pro football players and shadetree mechanics, um, y'know, GET PAID!

And to expand on your hooker analogy, bands that play for free aren't akin to wives. They're akin the dirty skank that will let anyone have their way with her because it's the only way she can get any. At least the hooker is smart enough to charge.
 
#387
djaydjay said:
Funny, I've never seen a football player complain that the kids playing football for free are taking their job. I probably live in a strange country :rolleyes:
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And I've never seen a working band complain about bands playing for free at home. But then again, we've all seen how the major sports unions treat scabs during strikes...

Edit: And really, the comparison between NFL players and semi-pro players is a false one. I'm sure Tom Brady and the NFLPA don't care at all about how much semi-pro players are making, just like I'm sure U2 and Coldplay don't care about the pay scale on the local bar scenes of any of the cities they play in.
 
#388
beggar98 said:
And I've never seen a working band complain about bands playing for free at home. But then again, we've all seen how the major sports unions treat scabs during strikes...
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I was speaking about kids playing in clubs.

And when I think about it, around my city there are 6 adult leagues. The 1st one has 90% of pros (the other beeing semi). The 2nd has almost no pros (1-2 in each club). The 4 other leagues only have people playing for free, with maybe 1-2 semi in each club.

Still don't hear them complain.
 
#389
djaydjay said:
I was speaking about kids playing in clubs.

And when I think about it, around my city there are 6 adult leagues. The 1st one has 90% of pros (the other beeing semi). The 2nd has almost no pros (1-2 in each club). The 4 other leagues only have people playing for free, with maybe 1-2 semi in each club.

Still don't hear them complain.
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Are you talking about soccer? If so I shall exercise my right to ignore your opinion.
 
#391
Gee, this again?
It's really, really simple, ready?

As much as we may hate it, people will play for free as much as they want to, forever, so get used to it. You can't stop it, so stop worrying about it and do something constructive instead.
It's a bit like whining about music piracy, peer-to-peer etc. It's NEVER going away- deal with it.

It's been said that getting into music for the money is like getting into astronomy or birdwatching for the sex.
 
#394
beggar98 said:
Well, except that semi-pro football players and shadetree mechanics, um, y'know, GET PAID!
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Not really.

Of all the semi-pro players I know, NONE get a salary. In fact most of them... PAY TO PLAY. In games where concessions are sold and you have to buy a ticket to get in.

...and I know LOTS of shade tree mechanics doing work for free for their brother/mother/neighbor/friend.

...and I know lots of DIYers who do significant work on folks houses for free.

beggar98 said:
And to expand on your hooker analogy, bands that play for free aren't akin to wives. They're akin the dirty skank that will let anyone have their way with her because it's the only way she can get any. At least the hooker is smart enough to charge.
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So the dirty skank is stealing business from the hooker.
 
#395
Floyd Eye said:
OK, let's run on the assumption that working bands have nothing to lose by other bands playing free, because if you draw well, clubs will hire you.

That said, don't you think that the proliferation of bands willing to play for free at a minimum lowers the average price a band is able to charge for a gig? Can't we at least all agree that it has a negative impact on live music in general?
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Sure, it probably does. I used to beat the same drum as you do, but eventually gave up, because there is NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.
Things are only 'worth' what people are willing to pay for them. THAT is the reality of the situation.
 
#396
dmusic148 said:
Sure, it probably does. I used to beat the same drum as you do, but eventually gave up, because there is NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.
Things are only 'worth' what people are willing to pay for them. THAT is the reality of the situation.
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Well, in my defense, it isn't like I go around town preaching about it. I comment on it here because, well, that's what the thread is about.
 
#397
djaydjay said:
Indeed, I am. Just didn't see the point in bringing that second argument in that already controversial thread (and I actually don't really like soccer, but that's not the point).
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I don't really know how club soccer works, but my point of view is that anytime someone is making a profit off of entertainment, then the entertainer should get a hefty cut of the proceeds. If the owners of club soccer teams make money, then they should be paying the players. If the owners of bars make money, then they should pay the bands. Do they have to? No. But they should.
 
#398
beggar98 said:
I don't really know how club soccer works, but my point of view is that anytime someone is making a profit off of entertainment, then the entertainer should get a hefty cut of the proceeds. If the owners of club soccer teams make money, then they should be paying the players. If the owners of bars make money, then they should pay the bands. Do they have to? No. But they should.
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+10,000
 

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