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Original bands playing for free: a chronic problem
- Thread starter behemecoytl
- Start date
Exactly. I wonder how the people who play for free and don't care who profits off them would feel if someone stole a song of theirs and used it for commercial purposes. Would they be so nonchalant about it?
Completely false.
If there are no free bands to victimize you, and your band (still) draws nobody, your band will be fired. Then we'll have a 500+ post thread on TB about how it is the bar owner's responsibility to provide an audience, thus you were victimized by the bar owner and it's still not your fault that your band cannot draw anybody.
I have read exactly this defective idea on TB at least 100 times.
To the victims of free bands, see if you can find a pattern:
If there are no free bands, and your band draws people, you will get paid.
If there are free bands and your band draws people, you will get paid.
If DNA analysis confirms that you are the child of two half-victims, thus producing a 100% pure blooded victim, and your band draws people, you will get paid.
If you have been cursed by an ancient mummy so that everything you own is stolen from you, but your band draws people, you will get paid.
If you are French-Canadian, but your band draws people, you will get paid.
If you live in a fishing village, but your band draws people, you will get paid.
If your name is Ren McCormack, you're from the bit city, and you move to a small town where dancing is outlawed, but your band draws people, you will get paid.
If your band consists of steel drums, bagpipes, mandolin, and death metal screaming vocals, and your band draws people, you will get paid.
If your band plays 12-bar blues in 3 tempos, 4 keys, and ends up with 33,028 12-bar blues songs, and your band draws, you will get paid.
Now for a few counter-examples:
If your band plays phenomenal, world-healing, life-changing music, but your band does NOT draw, you will lose your gig.
If your band is mediocre and unoriginal, but your band does NOT draw, you will lose your gig.
- Jun 3, 2009
- 3,330
- 398
- Disclosures
- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
While this post is tongue-in-cheek, its not that far from true.
I do not know of any original band who, especially beginning, draws much. They usually play only certain clubs, who specifically cater and sponsor original music. I can't tell you how many times over the early decade of my career that my band wound up splitting maybe 60 bucks. That's because for most original music its nearly pay to play. You normally have to sell tickets or guarantee the club owner a certain number of attendees and if you don't you get squat, and if you do or exceed the number you usually wind up with not much more then your share of what you guaranteed.
As for original bands being booked in clubs and playing for free, I've never seen that here in NJ. Clubs that book single bands for a night usually hire only cover bands. They are paying them the same as I used to get playing covers in the early 1980's, but they get paid. I booked a show at a local club for my band and one other, and the bar owner and I agreed that I would place a "counter" at the door, and if 50 people came into the bar between 8 and 10, we got paid $250, and if a total of 100 came in over the night we got $400. This is for original music.
Moral of the story was we drew 97, so got a $250 guarantee and the bar owner actually had one of his best nights of recent note and gave us the $400 anyway. Had we not drawn according to our agreement I and the other band would have gotten squat. Or as the OP says, "Play for free".
Organizing musicians is a great idea. But to do it as a fight against the clubs will in the long run be self defeating. Better thing to do is to organize the bands and start promoting and having shows where only your bands in the group are on the ticket, and start to build a regular draw. Find that club owner or two who loves what you do and help them out as well. As you start to draw and your bands in your group start to get paid, the other clubs in the area will want them. Then you can start to demand a few bucks.
I know this, no club or bar owner, no matter how cheap, can afford to have bar stools empty consistently. If you are putting out a good product and drawing them in, the other bar owners are not going to want to continually have Joe Original from Nutsville every week who only draws six friends and their mothers.
tom
jive1
Commercial User
Draw is usually king, but there is such a thing as bad draw.
I played in a Blues band a while back that replaced a Drum and Bass night at a club. The D+B bands had great draw and packed the place. Unfortunately the crowd didn't spend much money at the bar, and scared away the regulars that did. The bar was packed, but they didn't make more money even though the workload increased. Our band, with it's lousy draw compared to the D+B bands actually made the bar more profit with less work. One of the advantages of a crowd that likes to order Single Malt Scotch.
Another band I was in played a packed place, but was not asked back because some folks in the crowd exhibited lewd behavior and there were incidents that involved the police after the show. The bar made money, but I guess it wasn't worth the hassles. I was POed because I didn't think we caused any of the problems, but just happened to be there when this went down. But the owner didn't want to deal with 'our crowd'.
Draw is a good thing for bands because it equals more exposure for your music, ticket and merch sales. Draw is a good thing if it makes the bar more money. If it doesn't, then it actually worse. As a bar owner, I'd much rather have a dozen people who tip the staff $1000 each and buys 10K worth of top shelf alcohol than 200 unruly customers who only order water and don't tip the bar staff.
In short, your draw has to make then venue money without creating liabilities. If it doesn't it's a burden.
I played in a Blues band a while back that replaced a Drum and Bass night at a club. The D+B bands had great draw and packed the place. Unfortunately the crowd didn't spend much money at the bar, and scared away the regulars that did. The bar was packed, but they didn't make more money even though the workload increased. Our band, with it's lousy draw compared to the D+B bands actually made the bar more profit with less work. One of the advantages of a crowd that likes to order Single Malt Scotch.
Another band I was in played a packed place, but was not asked back because some folks in the crowd exhibited lewd behavior and there were incidents that involved the police after the show. The bar made money, but I guess it wasn't worth the hassles. I was POed because I didn't think we caused any of the problems, but just happened to be there when this went down. But the owner didn't want to deal with 'our crowd'.
Draw is a good thing for bands because it equals more exposure for your music, ticket and merch sales. Draw is a good thing if it makes the bar more money. If it doesn't, then it actually worse. As a bar owner, I'd much rather have a dozen people who tip the staff $1000 each and buys 10K worth of top shelf alcohol than 200 unruly customers who only order water and don't tip the bar staff.
In short, your draw has to make then venue money without creating liabilities. If it doesn't it's a burden.
jive1 said:
+1
But I think most are operating under the false impression that this is a hobby unless you are a big time act like U2. Or that it is the bands responsibility to make the venue successful. Thats not true in all cases. It is the bands responsibility to make themselves successful. Some bands play on commission and that's great, but others play in well established venues that don't need them to draw a big crowd. It makes absolutely no sense to expect every band to to have the sole responsibility to bring in patronage to the venue. There are several traps that bands frequently fall into, if we want to be successful, then its our responsibility to avoid the traps. Playing for free, pay to play, crowd draw (to an established venue) are a few of the traps. They give false hope. Which leads to back stabbing, undercutting, and other despicable acts perpetrated by some bands on other bands. Just look at some of the responses to this topic. All kinds of mean spiritedness, just because some people have a different opinion. Makes me wonder what some people will do to get a gig. This is not a hobby for everyone. I'm a weekend warrior too, but I won't undercut steady working bands because that WILL eventually turn out to be harmful to me down the road. I don't have to play to earn a living. But when I do play, I would like to be compensated for it
jive1
Commercial User
As a counterpoint....
If your band packs the place with people who don't order drinks and tip the staff, you won't be asked to return.
If your band packs the place with unruly folks who harass the staff and other customers, you will not be asked back.
If your band packs the place with folks who are gonna get the venue in legal problems, you will not be asked back.
If your band draws a crowd that scares away the regulars, you will not be asked back.
If your band draws a crowd that totally trashes the place, you will not be asked back.
You guys do realize it called "Show Business" for a reason, right? Oh and buy the way, there is no such thing as "world healing" music. Life changing? Only on an individual basis, if that. But it sounds nice though 
jive1
Commercial User
This is just my opinion, but I think the term "weekend warrior" to be outdated. It may have applied in an earlier time when clubs had live music 3-5 days a week, but nowadays it's hard to find a place that has live music outside of Friday and Saturday. And the few places that have live music on weeknights tend not to pay enough for anyone to make a living at, if at all. So, IMHO, if you're playing the club circuit, you're a "weekend warrior" regardless of whether or not you're a pro because the only paying gigs in most areas are going to be on weekends.
Other than supporting a national act, I can't remember a gig since the early/mid 90s where a band got decent pay on a Tues or Weds at a club.
Other than supporting a national act, I can't remember a gig since the early/mid 90s where a band got decent pay on a Tues or Weds at a club.
jive1 said:
Good point, but that depends on where you live. There's a 24/7 music scene here in Las Vegas. But I can see other places not having such an active scene though.
jive1
Commercial User
Good point too. I forgot about resort towns and vacation spots.
You're lucky in Vegas in that tourist season is year-round. When I lived in Colorado, there were decent paying gigs on weekdays at the resorts during ski season. The problem was that they were so far from me in Denver with the shortest drive being about 3 hours to Breckenridge. I could have moved closer to the resorts, but that would also mean being gigless/jobless in the summers.
There are some towns that have more active scenes. But, I think they are more the exception than the rule.
- Jul 13, 2011
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- Disclosures
- Endorsed Artist: WBGear.com and SIT Strings
best suggestion is get some merch. sell tshirts and cd's. however this will bleed out your fan base fast. another suggestion is rent out the venue yourself, and organise the othe local bands to sell tickets/bring a draw.
