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Original bands playing for free: a chronic problem

B

behemecoytl

Oct 1, 2008
136
3
#1
The ongoing conundrum: bars want live music but won't pay for it.

I live in a small town with 2 colleges, so despite being a small town, it's got a vibrant night-life and a strong music scene. There are several decent venues in town and they pretty much only book original bands (people actually come out to hear original music here- amazing and wonderful). No work for cover bands here, but as an original band, you could book yourself every night of the week if you wanted...all for free.

Last Saturday after a gig at a local bar I looked around and noted that our band and the other band who played had brought in just about 99% of the patrons that evening (probably 30-40 people- a small place so it was pretty full)- all of course eating and drinking and spending money... and yet the bands get 2 free drinks and 1/2 price food, plus tips if we put out a jar.

After gas and making posters for the show and the 1/2 price dinners we ate (not even calculating personal effort and investment), I figure the gig cost us about $40. Clearly, this is not a formula for success.

The problem is that there are so many bands here that if you don't play for free, you don't play. I have tried to think of solutions to this problem:

(1) perhaps insisting to bars that we don't want free drinks. 2 free drinks per band member equal ~$5 * 4, so they could at least pay us $25... not much, but with gas topping $4 per gallon, it's something.

(2) my guitarist suggested trying to organize the local bands and refuse to play for free- anyone have experience with this?

... any suggestions on how to get the venues to compensate fairly? I know the story that original music doesn't pay unless you sell cds and merch and get the big time gigs... but i am increasingly jaded feeling that we're working to enrich bar owners while taking on all the costs.

or maybe I should learn to play for the Love of Music, or "Exposure"... ugh.
 
#2
behemecoytl said:
(1) perhaps insisting to bars that we don't want free drinks. 2 free drinks per band member equal ~$5 * 4, so they could at least pay us $25... not much, but with gas topping $4 per gallon, it's something.
Click to expand...

The problem with this approach is that what the bar would be willing to pay you in lieu of your free drinks (if anything) would not be the market value of the drinks, but the cost of those drinks to the bar, which is practically nothing.
 
#4
It sounds like your best bet for getting a little cash is to invest in some merch. Record a CD, hock it for a couple of bucks with t-shirts and stickers. Beer koozies / bottle openers could also work in a college town.

With a million bands in town, organization is going to be difficult, and like the other posters have said, the cost of drinks isn't the same as what you pay for them.
 
#5
I don't see any easy solutions to your dilemma. I doubt if you will be able to organize the bands into some kind of union. I suspect that in a college town the bands are rather fluid anyway, with bands constantly forming, breaking up, and reforming with musicians from several previous bands. As long as some of the bands continue to play for free, no bars will be paying for your band. The only possibility is if one of the venues will consider themselves to be the "top" venue and will hire only the best - and most stable - three or four bands on a rotating basis. At that point you may be able to work with the other bands to set a common price for playing the so-called "top" venue. It may not work, however, if that venue is willing to put lesser talent on stage if they are willing to play for free.

Unfortunately, it's supply and demand. And it sounds like there is an oversupply of bands willing to play for free.
 
#6
Febs said:
The problem with this approach is that what the bar would be willing to pay you in lieu of your free drinks (if anything) would not be the market value of the drinks, but the cost of those drinks to the bar, which is practically nothing.
Click to expand...

this is a good point I didn't think of, but it seems to me that the bar's opportunity cost for giving a free drink is the market value of the drink, considering that they could've sold that drink for full price...

perhaps a better question is should we simply try to negotiate with venues for some compensation to cover costs and in return we won't drink for free and if we want to eat, we'll pay for it?
 
#9
There is nothing you can do to solve this ongoing issue, just deal with it or stop playing out..... I'm not trying to be a smartass but this is the way it has been for a while for original bands and I don't see it changing anytime soon.....
 
#11
tdub0199 said:
There is nothing you can do to solve this ongoing issue, just deal with it or stop playing out..... I'm not trying to be a smartass but this is the way it has been for a while for original bands and I don't see it changing anytime soon.....
Click to expand...

yeah, I know... it's out of desperation that I'm seeking advice since I'm seriously considering the second option. I've gone home after the last few gigs thinking that I would've rather sat at home and watched a Law and Order marathon on TBS.
 
#12
... any suggestions on how to get the venues to compensate fairly?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to be the one to share the bad news...you are being compensated fairly. The bar owners are offering you a job which your competition in the marketplace readily accepts and comes back for more. The product you are offering is not worth more to them than that, I'm afraid. I say this knowing how difficult it is to lock in with 4 band members and rehearse until you have a solid thing going. It's a supply and demand thing and apparently the local bar owners don't see paying the bands more as being a money-maker. In their defense, bars in college towns tend to come-and-go as well...it can't be super-profitable or they'd be in the game longer.

I would suggest that you have one other option available to you...you could get discovered by radio and put out a couple of big hits. I suspect that if U2 came to town, Bono would be paid more than cocktails.

I mean no disrespect but I'm a business guy...if my product is no longer in demand and I wish to be in business for more than a hobby, I make a new product. I guess if it were me, I'd try to change my outlook...you get to hang with your friends and be a rockstar for the evening and you get food & drinks for the pleasure. That sounds like a pretty cool hobby. You're right, however, it doesn't sound like much of a business model.

Good luck...I hope you get comfortable with it...you don't want to be jaded about playing music, IMO
 
#13
This is a tough one for sure. Allot of these bands are passing thru and wasting time. They play to have fun,get chicks and get drunk. When its over it's over no biggie. To others who are really trying to perform original music and get exposure it clogs up the system.
You wont get far I fear trying to get all the bands to work together all ask for a flat rate etc. Allot of them are figuring they would be out at one of those bars anyhow,might as well sling on a guitar have a few drinks and rock out.
I would approach one of the better clubs and see if you can charge the door. Cut the bar in for a buck or of the door. This way you will get something..anything. You could also try a no drinks or food and charge the door with you keeping all the money, try $2-$3 buck's... college kids are poor. The only other thing is if you are bringing that many people to a club point this out to an owner or manager and tell them you can do it again but you need a cut or a % of the bar's take for the night. At least this way you can make something again.
You will need to get all your group to help and show up and that can be a chore. If a venue owner see's you can do this they might bite and work with you, but with all the bands willing to play for free walking in..maybe not.
 
#14
travep said:
I'm sorry to be the one to share the bad news...you are being compensated fairly. The bar owners are offering you a job which your competition in the marketplace readily accepts and comes back for more. The product you are offering is not worth more to them than that, I'm afraid. I say this knowing how difficult it is to lock in with 4 band members and rehearse until you have a solid thing going. It's a supply and demand thing and apparently the local bar owners don't see paying the bands more as being a money-maker. In their defense, bars in college towns tend to come-and-go as well...it can't be super-profitable or they'd be in the game longer.

I would suggest that you have one other option available to you...you could get discovered by radio and put out a couple of big hits. I suspect that if U2 came to town, Bono would be paid more than cocktails.

I mean no disrespect but I'm a business guy...if my product is no longer in demand and I wish to be in business for more than a hobby, I make a new product. I guess if it were me, I'd try to change my outlook...you get to hang with your friends and be a rockstar for the evening and you get food & drinks for the pleasure. That sounds like a pretty cool hobby. You're right, however, it doesn't sound like much of a business model.

Good luck...I hope you get comfortable with it...you don't want to be jaded about playing music, IMO
Click to expand...

I hear what you're saying and I would agree with you if live music was the only thing we're offering the venues- but the fact is that we're bringing paying patrons to their bar: 30-40 people last Sat. we have a little following and they come to see us play- and they buy food and drinks (some buy alot of drinks)- and we also promote the show and the venue for free as well. some venues even want us to bring our own PA... for free.
 
#15
Well I think bands should be paid no matter what. Even if its a $25 guarantee. First I would try negotiating. I'm not going into specifics, but explain your situation to the man in charge of the bar. If that fails, find another venue in competition and see what they offer. If that doesn't work, organize your own shows. Certainly not the easiest solution, but it will solve the issue.

Forget about organizing the bands in your area. Focus on your band and getting people to see your band, become the Alpha band for your local tribe of bands. Organizing your own shows should not be an issue. Especially if you are offering pay to the bands and if they're other options are to play for free.

Also use Craigslist and Facebook to put pressure on the clubs to pay they're bands. I'm sure your not the only ones not happy with the situation. This is after you speak with the club owner.

Without getting into specifics, always conduct yourself professionally, even if the people you are dealing with are not. And don't let them convince you that bands should play for free, or that the club CAN'T afford to pay their bands.

Good Luck!
 
#16
I doubt that asking for a small amount of cash instead of free drinks and half-price meals would be helpful. The actual cost to the owner of the current deal is very close to zero.

The probablility of organizing an overwhelming majority of the bands in your area is nearly zero.

CD's and merchandise are the only ways I see to cover your expenses.
 
#17
When I was in an originals band in the 90's it was typically 4 bands per show and you would split the cover charge. If I was lucky it would pay for gas and a few beers. But at least I knew people were there to here the bands music. Cover bands can make a lot more but most people didn't acre about the music they just wanted to get drunk and get some. Neither is wrong just depends on what your looking for. I decided I like to play for fun and record nowdays. I'll play out a little but I realize the only money being made is buy the music store I buy my gear from. If you're determined to make money with band and have the following to do so, maybe tray renting a hall once a month and charge a cover and or sell beer to the over 21 crowd. More risk but more reward if you can pack the place once a month. Sorry to ramble.
 
#18
travep said:
I'm sorry to be the one to share the bad news...you are being compensated fairly. The bar owners are offering you a job which your competition in the marketplace readily accepts and comes back for more. The product you are offering is not worth more to them than that, I'm afraid. I say this knowing how difficult it is to lock in with 4 band members and rehearse until you have a solid thing going. It's a supply and demand thing and apparently the local bar owners don't see paying the bands more as being a money-maker. In their defense, bars in college towns tend to come-and-go as well...it can't be super-profitable or they'd be in the game longer.

I would suggest that you have one other option available to you...you could get discovered by radio and put out a couple of big hits. I suspect that if U2 came to town, Bono would be paid more than cocktails.

I mean no disrespect but I'm a business guy...if my product is no longer in demand and I wish to be in business for more than a hobby, I make a new product. I guess if it were me, I'd try to change my outlook...you get to hang with your friends and be a rockstar for the evening and you get food & drinks for the pleasure. That sounds like a pretty cool hobby. You're right, however, it doesn't sound like much of a business model.

Good luck...I hope you get comfortable with it...you don't want to be jaded about playing music, IMO
Click to expand...

HUH??? WHAT??? This is wrong. College bars last decades... If the bar is full of regulars, then they have a case for not paying them. But if a band is bringing in patrons, they should be paid. Even if no one shows up they should be paid.

Why are you be belittling the OP? I smell a troll? Become like U2? Huh? I think the bar can afford $50 to pay a band. If they can't maybe THEY should look at their business model.
 
#20
I'm not an expert, just pointing out some observations.......

I've noticed that over time, the product or revenue streams for original bands and cover bands to be a little different. For cover bands, their main product is their performance. For original bands, their main product is the songs. Not to say that there isn't crossover, because there can be. A cover band can sell merch and CDs of their version of tunes, as well as an original band that gets more attention for their live shows than their recordings. But, I'm talking in generalizations, and some of the frustration comes from confusion of revenue streams or products.

A cover band makes most of their money from their performance, and the production involved. They might make a little money from merch if they have any, but they probably won't make any money selling the songs since they are someone else's. And if they do sell the songs, someone else is getting a cut.

On the other hand, the original band's main revenue stream comes from the song and merch, and not the performance. It would be nice if the performance would be profitable, but lately, it's much harder. Thus, the performance is a means to sell the CD/Recording/swag/etc. Even in the big leagues, bands tour to support a CD, and the CD sales may offset the loss taken from the tour.

IMO, as an original band, if you don't have a tangible take-home product, the performances are more likely to be unprofitable. Even if you get the 'big break' by getting discovered by some A&R guy, it still helps to have a recording to give them as well as something that has your website and or contact info.

So in short, unless you have something to sell, it's getting harder and harder to make money from performing originals.
 
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