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OTE vs. IEM

B

BassistForJesus

Sep 28, 2010
458
10
#1
Our church band is transitioning to IEMs.

We have keyboard, drums, aux keyboard, electric guitar, and six singers.

I've seen some threads say that OTE are better for bass players.

Thoughts or experience (especially church cats)?
 
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#2
I can only see two things that are arguably better with headphones; comfort (some don't like IEM) and the live sound leakage you get from any back line and drums on stage (can feel better than just an in ear mix).

A whole band playing with headphones would not look right though, if that is an issue. If you're in an orchestra pit or similarily behind the scenes so to speak, just use what is comfortable.
 
#3
Thanks. Not such much worried about comfort than I am clarity and tone. Our sets are not more than 30 minutes. And I am specifically asking for bass players. Most of the other band members have already purchased some really nice IEMs.

FretNoMore said:
I can only see two things that are arguably better with headphones; comfort (some don't like IEM) and the live sound leakage you get from any back line and drums on stage (can feel better than just an in ear mix).

A whole band playing with headphones would not look right though, if that is an issue. If you're in an orchestra pit or similarily behind the scenes so to speak, just use what is comfortable.
Click to expand...
 
#5
Fixed original post. The verbiage was confusing.

Since it will be an introduction to in ears for me, I am going with the Shure SE215. They get a lot of praise for a entry level IEM.

We each have a Behringer P16 mixer for our own mixes (16 channels).

FretNoMore said:
OK, I misread you post as meaning the whole band was going to headphones (as opposed to IEM).

I would personally go with IEM, but make sure I had some control of the mix, at least bass level versus the rest.[/QUO
Click to expand...
 
#6
BassistForJesus said:
Our church band is transitioning to IEMs.

We have keyboard, drums, aux keyboard, electric guitar, and six singers.

I've seen some threads say that OTE are better for bass players.

Thoughts or experience (especially church cats)?
Click to expand...

I have yet to see any thread anywhere saying that. That tells me that it's not a widely-held opinion. I'm not saying you didn't see that or that I don't believe you, but I have yet to see such...

I use my 1964 Quads everywhere I can. We use IEMs exclusively at the church where I play regularly. And I use them anywhere I can get a feed of some kind from the console. Jazz gigs, 80s bands, a female country artist with 2 CDs, and other ventures, too.

I use OTE phones at home to practice with. I can hear the phone ring or the doorbell while using them.

Oh, and the SE215s are a good place to start...
 
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#7
BassistForJesus said:
Fixed original post. The verbiage was confusing.

Since it will be an introduction to in ears for me, I am going with the Shure SE215. They get a lot of praise for a entry level IEM.

We each have a Behringer P16 mixer for our own mixes (16 channels).
Click to expand...
As a bass and guitar player - both secular and church - I would advise against single driver buds of any kind - tho' I realize most are budget constrained. Been there, done that and paid the price (many times over). For bass you REALLY need multiple drivers to get the sound stage and separation so it doesn't all turn to mush. The SE215's are fine for entry level, but you'll soon realize they have limitations that all single drivers do.
Think of it as your home stereo system only having one speaker and everything being pumped thru it.. the speaker is not physically handle it well and it can get very mushy - hardly CD quality. Now put that in your ears.. you get the picture! Still better than a wedge tho' IME.

Yes, I get there's a budget and most head down the single driver path, but over the last 5 yrs I have run the gamut of universals vs customs, single vs multiple driver, wired vs wireless and that includes UM1's, SE215 and now 1964 Quads (for buds), Carvin EM900, PSM200, and Senn G3 (wireless) and Aviom and P16 systems. I currently run Senn G3 with 1964 quads with band (X32 console, mixing my own IEM's from my iPad) and Avioms at church. Very happy. Stupid silly bass if I need it. GeriO will vouch for that!! FWIW - I only ever used the 215's that came with the PSM, never tried the 4i (?) that came with the Senn's and the Carvin buds only once.

Do some research - there are some REALLY good and [relatively] inexpensive multi-driver buds out there, both custom and universal fit. GeriO (and others) recommend the UM30's.
However, none of the decent ones are cheap. I've seen too many folks dump IEM's and go back to other monitoring tools (wedges) because they could not find themselves in a single-driver delivered mix.

The best advice I can offer is DO NOT GO CHEAP on buds..
Good luck..
 
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#9
s0c9 said:
As a bass and guitar player - both secular and church - I would advise against single driver buds of any kind - tho' I realize most are budget constrained. Been there, done that and paid the price (many times over). For bass you REALLY need multiple drivers to get the sound stage and separation so it doesn't all turn to mush. The SE215's are fine for entry level, but you'll soon realize they have limitations that all single drivers do.
Click to expand...
this!

skip that money-wasting first step and go straight to at least dual-driver buds.
 
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#10
Current IEM offerings are amazing, and I don't recall anyone, here on TB, or more reliably in real life, saying OTE is better for onstage use.

Church performance is becoming more and more about appearances - don't fight me on this, it's true - and OTE phones look atrocious, especially on video.
 
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#11
FretNoMore said:
I can only see two things that are arguably better with headphones; comfort (some don't like IEM) and the live sound leakage you get from any back line and drums on stage (can feel better than just an in ear mix).

A whole band playing with headphones would not look right though, if that is an issue. If you're in an orchestra pit or similarily behind the scenes so to speak, just use what is comfortable.
Click to expand...

There are some people who find IEM more comfortable than OTE. Personally, I think OTE looks kind of silly with a band but it really doesn't matter as long as the person using them is comfortable and can hear what he or she wants to.
 
#12
s0c9 said:
As a bass and guitar player - both secular and church - I would advise against single driver buds of any kind - tho' I realize most are budget constrained. Been there, done that and paid the price (many times over). For bass you REALLY need multiple drivers to get the sound stage and separation so it doesn't all turn to mush. The SE215's are fine for entry level, but you'll soon realize they have limitations that all single drivers do.
Think of it as your home stereo system only having one speaker and everything being pumped thru it.. the speaker is not physically handle it well and it can get very mushy - hardly CD quality. Now put that in your ears.. you get the picture! Still better than a wedge tho' IME.

Yes, I get there's a budget and most head down the single driver path, but over the last 5 yrs I have run the gamut of universals vs customs, single vs multiple driver, wired vs wireless and that includes UM1's, SE215 and now 1964 Quads (for buds), Carvin EM900, PSM200, and Senn G3 (wireless) and Aviom and P16 systems. I currently run Senn G3 with 1964 quads with band (X32 console, mixing my own IEM's from my iPad) and Avioms at church. Very happy. Stupid silly bass if I need it. GeriO will vouch for that!! FWIW - I only ever used the 215's that came with the PSM, never tried the 4i (?) that came with the Senn's and the Carvin buds only once.

Do some research - there are some REALLY good and [relatively] inexpensive multi-driver buds out there, both custom and universal fit. GeriO (and others) recommend the UM30's.
However, none of the decent ones are cheap. I've seen too many folks dump IEM's and go back to other monitoring tools (wedges) because they could not find themselves in a single-driver delivered mix.

The best advice I can offer is DO NOT GO CHEAP on buds..
Good luck..
Click to expand...

walterw said:
this!

skip that money-wasting first step and go straight to at least dual-driver buds.
Click to expand...

This/\ single driver IEM's cannot replicate low end frequencies properly IME, all you'll hear I string noise with zero fundamental, get some good dual drivers, more expensive but a must as a bassist...
 
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#13
Invest in a good pair of IEM's now and you won't regret it. I have the JH Audio JH11's, but many folks on TB have 1964 Quads - both have dual low, single mid, and single high drivers. (Had I known about the 1964's, I could've saved ~$300.) Take care of them, clean your ears especially if you're Shrek, and you'll be a happy camper.
 
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#14
Our church transitioned via going ampless and going direct, -we have some using Iem's, and some headphones. I initially was gonna order some 1964 quads but bought a Phil jones bass buddy and a set of Phil jones headphones instead. I love it!
The pj phones sound superb and are very comfortable, low profile and isolate very well. I'm satisfied and have no plans for Iem's now. I alternate my Modulus Q-5 and Bossa ob-5, and they both sound astounding through my phones :)
 
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#15
I use IEM's and have been for YEARS... Sennheiser ew300 G3 with Westone UM4x's... I wouldn't have it any other way... I also use a GK MB800 fusion with 2 GK neo 112's... My stage volume is perfect to get in the mix and I control my own in ear mix via iPad ... You hear EVERY nuance from your bass with IEM's... No digging in hard to hear yourself - play easier - ... My GK gets the bottom bumped a bit for stage "feel"... IEM's are fantastic once you get used to them
 
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#16
I bought a decent $500 set of buds 6 months ago for church as well.
I found out rather quickly that good IEM's don't make up for weak links in the chain.
-the behringer mixing post they were using were terrible; didn't have a reference until they were replaced by a better one and it was night and day. I couldn't get enough bass to the buds prior to that.
-secondly, regardless of how well a custom set seals, you will get ambient bleed and you are at the mercy of your drummer and how hard he hits. when I was onstage, I was as far away from the drums as possible, had no drums in my mix and it was still to loud...may be the reason I quit?
in the end, I spent too much money from my own pocket and wasn't aware of the other factors involved until the situation arose; I realize that the weak link in the chain was an acoustic drum set (behind plexi too). because of this, it was always hard to hear my bass in my IEMs.

in the end, I still had to run a bass cab nearby to hear and feel myself which defeated the entire purpose of going wedgeless.
 
#18
Medford Bassman said:
I've used both IEM and OTE for orchestra pits. Both have + and - issues. IEM are comfortable (custom) but no ambient sound. OTE easier to pull one side off if member of pit needs to tell me something, but they get my ears warm after a while.
Click to expand...

Someone may have already mentioned this, but I've read of bands that use IEMs will point a microphone to the audience to capture the ambience. And it makes sense.
 
#19
I use the Shure SE315s and they're good enough for me to hear everything. Although I've never really used a pair with multiple drivers to compare to. When I got the 315s they came with a bunch of different types of sleeves for the ear pieces- silicone rubber, foam rubber, yellow foam (classic earplugs), etc. The different types will change the amount of bass response so you can experiment there.

As for ambience of IEMs, our church has a mic on each side of the stage that's used to pick up the room/congregation (originally set up for recording/streaming purposes). Our sound man can give us that in the IEMs too so you don't feel isolated from the room.
 
#20
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My $.02 is "don't get crazy." If you are JUST getting into using IEMs at your church, there will be a lot of variables needed for it to truly make spending $500+ worth it. The Shure 215 you mentioned are nice set to consider. They have dynamic drivers which gives a bit more kick in the low end than a balanced armature would (SE315), but sometimes dynamic driver based IEMs can suffer from lack of clarity and speed in the low end. A lot of this will depend on your budget, and keep in mind that the law of diminishing returns works here as well.

Some budget IEMs to consider that I've liked (or others):
Philips SHE3580/3590 (great Sub-bass. Consider getting Comply foam tips)
ME Electronics M6
Shure SE215 (Good warranty and C.S.)
 

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