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Outdoor gig, evening time, built up area, volume problem.

#64
Is the gig tonight? If it is there looks to be light rain hanging about over the East Anglia coast so I hope you have some cover for your gear.

I get where you are coming from (even if others don't), you have a show that you perform at a certain volume, played it countless times and are comfortable with it. Then some clown wants to turn all this on it's head and have you play it at fools on stools volume.
 
#65
Fred - thanks, that is exactly how it is. I actually noticed a planning permission notice on the pole near the entrance - they're looking to expand facilities. Probably why they're asking us about the volume.

We try to make our shows all the same - and because of IEMs and hotspots, our stage volume rarely changes - just the PA goes up and down to suit the size. Just can't get my head around the notion that clients expect you to change what works into something worse with no understanding of what they ask. The ironic thing is that none of us like the stage to be loud - but there is loud and there is unworkable. Trying to play, and straining to catch the harmonies from one of the other guys that you need to pitch the next note kind of falls apart when you can't hear them.

Re: the date for this one = We're trying to get sorted for next Saturday, so time to fiddle a bit. Weather now is light drizzle - this weekend looking grim, but we're indoors as usual.
 
#66
If you are pointed towards the sea, you might be okay.

Nothing out there to reflect sound. Bass is going to be your biggest concern, but it's only 2 X 45 minute sets.

If the clubhouse is blocking the sound behind you, I wouldn't worry too much about it. The only residences that you need to worry about, are any in line of sight from the stage.

I might be tempted to have the booking agent who signed you up for the gig, make a courtesy visit to them over the next week, and explain what is going on. If somebody preemptively warned me that there was an event, I'd be inclined to cut them a lot of slack.

Hell, if I knew it would bother me, I'd take my wife out to dinner that night!
 
#67
paulears said:
Well - even worse, a local promoter has heard about it on the grapevine and is coming to see us. Nightmare getting worse.

Current thinking is scrap my bass amp altogether and DI it, and stuff the kick drum to deaden it right down. Let the PA then balance it out at the lowest possible volume.
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Catching on. I would still use the bass amp though. As they said, bass travels the furthest. Maybe you can get someone from the club to station themselves down at the neighbours boundary while you have a stab at max bass dynamic and turn down as necessary. Add the drums and see how badly they travel, discipline as required. Then they can mix around you.

Who knows, this other promotor might get to hear a really well done 1 mouse power show and you get booked up and down the country club scene. You should get ahead of it with him but don't let on to the punters that you are struggling with lack of volume.
 
#68
tfer said:
If you are pointed towards the sea, you might be okay.

Nothing out there to reflect sound. Bass is going to be your biggest concern, but it's only 2 X 45 minute sets.

If the clubhouse is blocking the sound behind you, I wouldn't worry too much about it. The only residences that you need to worry about, are any in line of sight from the stage.

I might be tempted to have the booking agent who signed you up for the gig, make a courtesy visit to them over the next week, and explain what is going on. If somebody preemptively warned me that there was an event, I'd be inclined to cut them a lot of slack.

Hell, if I knew it would bother me, I'd take my wife out to dinner that night!
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clubhouse would have to be 40ft tall to make a dent in the bass.
 
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#71
tfer said:
I was thinking about the walls along side of freeways through residential areas. They wipeout noise pretty effectively, and the are usually 15-20' high.
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I think that means there must be little sub bass to traffic relative to the rest of the noise.

I searched and searched and failed to find where this was answered before. There must be a frequency v height and width for a boundary to reflect bass effectively.

They talk about halfspace when the cab sits on the floor. Quarter space against a wall. Eighth space in a corner. That's halving the zone bass has to energise each time.

A ''small'' object has zero effect. A highrise city block would be pretty total in containing bass but 12ft wall would not. I would be tempted to look at the height as an extension of the horizontal distance to the rear.

Cardoid trickery aside, elimination at source is best.
 
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#72
As others have said, the drummer is your volume knob. Outstanding drummers can generally play at ANY volume with feel. Then, there are drummers who can only play at one volume. Just depends on the drummer. Everyone else has volume knobs.

If you are a cover band, then versatility is one key element to your act. You need to be able to play in many different situations. It's different if you are a name rock star. Then, you can dictate terms. Cover bands have to compete with DJ's. Non musicians who book entertainment LOVE DJ's, because they can turn their volume to whatever the host tells them to use. The same people also generally fear live bands, because they don't think they can control volume. Just the way it is. Sophisticated cover acts learn to adapt while still feelin it. Think of it as an opportunity to learn new tricks. Cats who want to play in cover acts and insist on being "artistes" are poor team players. Replace them.
 
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#74
Drummers are always the biggest factor in controlling volume. Then guitarists. Drummer should be using the smallest, lightest cymbals he can, the smallest lightest sticks he can, get the drums damped at least a little (moon gels and/or rings, etc...), and then play with a light touch, especially on the cymbals. A smaller jazz sized kit could help too.

Then you get the bass to sit even with the acoustic kick sound on stage. And then blend in the guitar/s and keys so the bass is kind of "surrounded" by them but not over powered. Then add the vocals so they sit JUST on top of everything else. If you can't do that and keep things below 100db in front of the stage, you're doing something wrong or not trying hard enough. So if that 100db is say at 10 ft from the stage, by 20 feet it will be 94, 40 feet 88, 80 feet 82, and 160 feet 76, which is not really very loud at all.
 
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#76
The drummer did not have a knob.

Sort of a mixed result. Due to some lack of coordination/communication between the agent and the client, it was a real bonus that it was raining hard all day (despite the weather forecast saying sun!).

They had not arranged a stage, or even cover, or electricity, so the event was moved indoors. The available space was very tight, and our space requirements (in metres) were presented as feet! Playing space depth 4 feet. Drummer had back to wall, people dancing right up to the kick front. We spread out sideways. I couldn't even turn to read the set list without my headstock hitting somebody dancing. Somebody kicked the mic stand and nearly took out the guitarists tooth. None of us could see anyone. Oddly - the sound was probably good - not really sure, but the crowd had a good time. One of those play and forget events that fit in the middle.

However - as a result, we're going to be much more careful on checking before we sign on anything slightly odd through agents. 5 hour journey today to the next one - big venue, nice hotel and good food. That's more important at our age.
 
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#77
Thanks for the follow up, last night as we were setting up I did wondered how it was going for you.

We also played at a Golf club on the east coast (which reminded me of this thread), on their website it said that if the weather was good the event would be moved out onto the patio. There was no mention of this to us when we we took the booking.

There had been no rain all day which counts as good weather in the UK (about 160 miles NW of where Paul played) but there was a chilly wind so the organiser went with the original plan of the clubhouse. Good job really because there is no way I will play outside without adequate rain protection.
 
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#78
At the next venue - we arrived the house tech had our rider - XLRs and mains power already set up as per the plan, and a drum rise the size of the entire playing area the night before. Coffee and biscuits (cookies!) in the dressing room - and a nice d&b line array - and monitor wedges. Funny how the very same rider gets treated.

Fred comments ring true though - to them, moving outside on a whim is simple - when the truth is it probably needs a license, and here in the UK there are very precise rules on electricity outside. I'm guessing that at some point, these kinds of venues will be brought under better control.
 

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