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over-sensi-sensitivity

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I just think in some cases, it has had the opposite effect than it was intended. Like I said, Blazing Saddles was intended to lampoon people who were racists, and yet, today, it would never get released.

As to Warner Brothers, some of the early stuff was overtly racist (as was parts of Fantasia, for example). But take a look at the violence. We all knew that Daffy Duck wasn't really getting his bill blown off - we knew it wasn't serious.
 
My very existence is offensive to some, but like so many things in life, i can't waste time being bothered by what bothers others.

I try my best to be respectful to others, but i'm no mind reader so if i upset someone because i don't know what trips their trigger, i can't worry overmuch about it. I can file it away to avoid the same mistake twice, but i cannot and will not worry about what i say in conversation in terms of it offending anyone. I do my best to treat others as i wish to be treated and that's the best i can do for them. If that is not acceptable then they have a problem they need to deal with.

As someone who is forever looking for ways to improve my stunted social skills, i think some sort of color coded offense identifier should be devised, especially for businesses. If a business wants to discriminate, let them, but make that fact plain to anyone through conspicuous signage at their place of business as well as all advertising, including that done on social media. If something offends a business owner enough to deny patronage to a paying customer, i certainly would need to know that before i screw up and accidently try to deal with someone who has no interest in dealing with me.

When i hear people complaining i wonder what the problem might be. Not enough food in the 3.5 grocery stores per square mile in the average urban area? Their 37th bass took 2 whole days to get from LA to Podunk and there was an entire half hour when tracking failed to update while it was in transit? Maybe a bunch of silly kids at the local university decided it would be important to invent a "safe shirt" to be worn when they had been offended by micro agressions? I realize how silly that would be to the former silly college student who spent an entire year waiting for their chakra stone to guide them to a major, but hey, what did we know? We were just silly kids listening to rocks. There was none of this safe shirt nonsense!
 
I don't think anyone has used this word in this thread yet, but the word "VICTIM" comes to my mind. There are a lot of people who insist in being the perpetual victim, and they weave stories so that there's always something to be offended by. I'm probably primed to see this more than others, since I grew up around someone who was an embodiment of the Karpman Drama Triangle.

In most areas of conflict, there are certainly things that others will do that rub us the wrong way. Similarly, there almost always things that we can be doing to make the situation work out in our favor (or at least influence it in that direction). I suppose it's human nature to point to grievances, but doing so is giving our own agency to others.

When I hear someone claiming to be offended, I often see someone that would rather be a victim than be happy.
 
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I just think in some cases, it has had the opposite effect than it was intended. Like I said, Blazing Saddles was intended to lampoon people who were racists, and yet, today, it would never get released.

As to Warner Brothers, some of the early stuff was overtly racist (as was parts of Fantasia, for example). But take a look at the violence. We all knew that Daffy Duck wasn't really getting his bill blown off - we knew it wasn't serious.

Easy to say, as a Straight White Male. Blazing Saddles could, in fact, be released today. Worse stuff is, all the time. We all knew that Daffy Duck wasn't really getting his bill blown off, but that is in no way related to racist caricatures that degrade people.

Bottom line is, if something is degrading to a minority group of any kind, it is not something we should encourage. I'm not talking about banning it. I believe in freedom of speech. But this idea that "everybody is too easily offended" is stupid, petty, bigoted and wrong-headed. SOME people are too easily offended. SOME people are RIGHTFULLY offended. There's a difference, and any grown up can easily see it.

Ethnic and racial slurs are wrong. Demeaning people based on gender, sexual preference, race, ethnicity, or any other protected status is harmful to society as a whole. And deciding who "should" or "should not" be offended is going to have to belong to whatever group's protected status is being threatened. You would think a lawyer would know that.

When I hear someone claiming to be offended, and I am the person causing the offense, I evaluate whether or not it is justified, and I don't use a snap judgment.

A discussion about Political Correctness is, in fact, a Political Discussion, and you all know darn well that is against talkbass off-topic rules. You may get away with it, and hey, lucky you, but how it belongs on this forum is beyond me.

I just think it's so hilarious that those who claim that others are too easily offended are so easily offended by those people being offended.

Get over it, you bunch of snowflakes.*


*That's a JOKE, son!
 
You don't get to determine if someone is offended or not. That's not at all how it works. If I overhear an offensive statement and turn you in to HR. It doesn't matter if you think I was offended or not. You are going to have to answer questions. I will have to provide answers as well but at no time will HR tell me I wasn't offended.
 
Did you read this after you posted it? Did you even think about it before you posted it? I hope that there was some subtext that you failed to include in your post.
I can see why the post could be misinterpreted.

I should have mentioned that what I found humorous was the animations, the speech and everything a 5-year-old might have seen and understood. I watched all these as a kid and had no concept of racism at the time.

Do I think racism in any form is acceptable? Not at all. But I'll tell you, when you see a man dart over a cliff and have his person replaced by an image of a lollipop that says "sucker", it doesn't matter what color his skin is. It's just funny.
 
This is a fine example of how things have changed. I grew up in a family that abhorred racism. As a white guy in the South, my Grandfather hated racism before hating racism was cool. I was brought up in his shadow (best thing that could have happened to me....I am still grounded by him today).

Some of those old Tom & Jerry episodes had an African American who was basically in "slave dress", had a head wrap, huge red lips, pretty much a caricature of all the bad stereotypes. Back then, I just thought the cartoons were funny. I wasn't taught to have a stroke every time I saw something that wasn't nice. I was taught to treat actual people based on the content of their character. These days, my girls love old Tom & Jerry cartoons.....even the ones with the "slave caricature" that calls Tom "Jasper". My girls are not racist. Three out of four of their teachers are African American and they all but worship those ladies. The youngest girl's best friend is African American. (My wife accuses me of flirting with her mother every time I see her....and my wife is not a jealous woman. ;)) But I must admit the caricature of that woman never crossed my mind until this conversation.

Here's the thing. MY REACTION is what matters here. My girls will continue to be not racist. I will continue to be not racist. But I'm not going to turn off those old Tom & Jerry cartoons, throw the remote into the pool, and give my girls a good talking to about how horrible that is to depict African Americans that way. Therein lies the "too sensitive" part to me. They see how I act toward people. They have never been exposed to the racism prevalent in older generations "down here" (the South). Racist people are taught to be racist (or sexist, or whatever). Mine are not "learning racism" from those old cartoons. They are learning how to NOT allow racism into their lives from me.

The "too sensitive" part comes to play when groups advocate for the public burning of the file reels that contain that "offensive content that clearly promotes racism and the firing of any CEO that allows those cartoons to be broadcast on their stations".

Like many issues we can't agree on here in the US, it is MY JOB to teach them otherwise. It is not the job of any government, or any nanny group, to filter out the content that I "should see" ass too offensive to braodcast.

Some people are offended by the uniforms cheerleaders wear when NFL games are broadcast. Should we ban those?
Some people are offended by the violence on TV. Should we ban that too?
Some people are offended that moral/social/political views other than their own are allowed to be broadcast. Should we ban those too?
(Yes, I just went down the slippery slope. Sometimes the slippery slope is a valid argument. :thumbsup:)


Good point.

As a kid in the 70's, I watched A LOT of Loony Tunes, Woody Woodpecker, and Tom & Jerry, along with a massive amount of Three Stooges. I was quite aware of the portrayal of different races in those cartoons--only because I had friends who had different color skin than me, or came from a different country.

But I was taken aside (on numerous occasions) by Mom & Dad, who would drive the idea into my head that "these are cartoons" and "cartoons are not meant to reflect real life in any way". Also---"it is NOT Ok to make fun of or to laugh at people who are different than you---you're no better of worse than them, just different."

I can thank my parents---not society---for drilling those values into my head. It's good to know that there are still some parents who care about this stuff.
 
I just think in some cases, it has had the opposite effect than it was intended. Like I said, Blazing Saddles was intended to lampoon people who were racists, and yet, today, it would never get released.

Sorry, but I don't buy your premise. Family Guy is far worse, and gets shown on prime time TV. I don't think we've become over-sensitive at all. I think we've maybe become just the opposite.
 
Oh boy (man?), I don't think this will last long. Your post isn't breaking any rules, but I do predict early heat death for this thread.

My contribution to the thread:
Plenty of Looney Tunes episodes. I mean the early ones of the 40s. They used to rip on African-American folks hard. I'd post links, but that could get me in trouble. So just google "all this and rabbit stew", at your own risk. No way that stuff would fly today. Funny as all can get, but the underlying tones of the cartoon would get shot down fast today. Looney Tunes as it were back then no longer exists.
Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs is a classic. A friend of mine has a bunch of those wartime Warner Bros./Looney Tunes cartoons on 16mm and 35mm film.
 
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Sorry, but I don't buy your premise. Family Guy is far worse, and gets shown on prime time TV. I don't think we've become over-sensitive at all. I think we've maybe become just the opposite.
Hey my friend. Haven't seen a post be you in a while. Maybe I have just been at the wrong place at the wrong time. Anyway it's good to see a post by you.
 
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I think a lot of it boils down to self-reflection, the ability to be a little introspective and truthful about yourself, and the ultimate ability to empathize with people that are different than you or have different values than you. Nobody wants to be the bad guy (most of us anyway), and I'm sure the majority of us think that we aren't part of a problem or that it's someone else's problem. "You're too sensitive". "It was a joke". "Safe spaces, snowflakes, millennials, beta males", yada yada...

It's easy to not take personal responsibility. It's easy to blame other people for your unwillingness to accept a different world view than your own.

But if you've ever found yourself posting pictures of random women in the audience or making innuendos about your female lead singer in the "babes at shows" threads, bashing millennials for their taste in music, or thinking "back in my day", you have to admit you're part of a problem. The problem of being a little out of touch. You can do two things with that. Accept it and try to grow where you think you can, or deny it and continue being an ass.

The onus shouldn't be on the offended, but the offender. If a woman says that she doesn't want to be called a "girl", accept her point of view, consider it, and be a little introspective. Don't try to justify your own world view to make you feel better (my wife says "the girls are going out tonight" so I think it's fine"). It didn't make that first woman's opinion any less valid. If someone tells you that your language is offensive, maybe think about it for a minute instead of denying someone elses experience.

To be clear, I believe in free speech. I don't believe anyone should be censored for their view points no matter how much I disagree with them or how harmful I think they may be. But the idea that it's everyone else's responsibility, so you don't have to change your attitude, doesn't fly with me. We're supposed to become more enlightened with age. And just as someone can say the problem is over-sensitivity in our culture today, I could say the problem is unwillingness to understand or empathize with other people or grow from personal experience.
 
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I think the more fascinating thing about all this is it seems to be almost entirely an American phenomenon. Most of the civilized, technical world find America stunted socially in both it's view on sexuality and race. If you show those same cartoons and movies elsewhere they are most likely to be taken much as they were when we were young and first viewed them. This isn't to suggest it was right. But it was right, for them, then. If you look at then and now we seem to have come a decent way.

Why?

The hardest hitting commentary, socially, in America, has always come from comedy. It is how we seem to have collectively been joined to discuss and examine something which otherwise could result in an unfavorable outcome. It allows for self examination. "Oh, wow. I didn't know I was perceived this way." It can allow for a more considered approach to how we interact with each other. This is good. I much prefer this method to the soap boxers who feel empowered to tell me how I should feel.

I think that is why we have come a decent amount of the way and it could take us all the way home if the baiters (sic) on both sides with very definite agendas would just give it a rest for awhile.

Obviously this is just my own opinion and should not in any way be taken as absolute. Even for myself.
 
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P-oddz your post is thoughtful and thought provoking. I have a slightly different point - attitudes that were prevalent in the past are not necessarily obsolete or not worth considering. I recently read a book called the Battle for Hell's Island about US naval aviators battling the Japanese for control of Guadalcanal in WW II. My dad was a naval aviator in the Atlantic in WW II, which is why I picked up the book. It reminded me of how profane, biased and straight up brave those men were. Their focus was far more on accomplishing the goal than on how someone felt about a word. Of course, everyday life is not like combat, and I certainly do not condone the prejudice that was prevalent in the mid 20th century in the USA (or in the USA in 2017 for that matter) - I had many arguments with my dad about that. On the other hand, I wonder if in our modern world we have lost sight of what is most important (our actions in this world) in our quest to be inoffensive and accommodating. I think it is worth being sensitive and accommodating to others, but sometimes it simply necessary to dispense with niceties and get straight to the actions that must be done. I do think there are times when sensitivity gets in the way of doing what is truly necessary and right.
 
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Being offended by a statement or action is a unique experience. Saying your offended is quite different than actually being offended. There's one in every crowd, perhaps many. There are new rules to learn for the old timers in this new age, can't say they are good rules or bad. The rules aim to censor. Those abiding by the rules effectively create a mask. Pass your judgements wisely.
 
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When I hear someone claiming to be offended, I often see someone that would rather be a victim than be happy.

I just think it's so hilarious that those who claim that others are too easily offended are so easily offended by those people being offended.


I just had to put these comments next to each other and see how I felt about them. I'm still looking. :)

As for the first one, really? How do you know someone's mentality? This seems like an arrogant thing to say.
 
As for the first one, really? How do you know someone's mentality? This seems like an arrogant thing to say.
I can see why it sounds arrogant, quoted by itself. When people choose to focus on the wrong that someone else did, and neglect to exert the control that they have to affect a positive outcome, then I suspect they aren't motivated to exert their own agency. I don't know what they're thinking, of course, and I keep an open mind that my supposition could be wrong.
 
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Good point.

As a kid in the 70's, I watched A LOT of Loony Tunes, Woody Woodpecker, and Tom & Jerry, along with a massive amount of Three Stooges. I was quite aware of the portrayal of different races in those cartoons--only because I had friends who had different color skin than me, or came from a different country.

But I was taken aside (on numerous occasions) by Mom & Dad, who would drive the idea into my head that "these are cartoons" and "cartoons are not meant to reflect real life in any way". Also---"it is NOT Ok to make fun of or to laugh at people who are different than you---you're no better of worse than them, just different."

I can thank my parents---not society---for drilling those values into my head. It's good to know that there are still some parents who care about this stuff.

Mine never took me aside and gave me the talk about such things regarding cartoons. But they taught me the same values none the less. It's amazing how high some parents set the bar. I try to be like mine but it's tough.
 
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