Looking for some help. I always have a problem finding an ideal sound, I want a gritty hard rock tone. It takes me ages cause sometimes I get overwhelmed with the bass settings, the pedals settings and the amp settings. I get something that sounds good to me. Then I take it to rehearsals and it sounds like ass compared to the guitars. Any help would be appreciated
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Overall sound
- Thread starter TheDerock
- Start date
New bass players tend to dial in a mid-scooped sound only to find out that it doesnt work well in a rock/metal setting. While it may not sound ideal to your ears, try setting your EQ flat the next time you rehearse. You will probably like the results much better.
A part of rehearsing with a band is massaging the instruments into a good ensemble sound.
So really everything is about context. Eq settings and distortion are always dependent on what else is happening to work.
Pedals are a huge X factor. I’d limit their use until you have some useable basic sounds worked up.
So really everything is about context. Eq settings and distortion are always dependent on what else is happening to work.
Pedals are a huge X factor. I’d limit their use until you have some useable basic sounds worked up.
pedals muddy things up imo...until you get use to their functions and sounds they'll produce, its just gonna make things worse. Just use simple bass, treble, mids on your amp...dont even use the eq. yet, If you can get a usable sound by simplifying everything first, you'll be better off. All i ever used starting out was a Pbass and lots of volume thru an SVT 8x10 cabinet, no pedals, my choice, never needed them and the band i was in never complained.
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It would be of some help if you listed the relevant parts of your signal chain.
In general, mids are your friend. Especially in a context where you're playing with distorted guitars, you want them.
Dialing in a sound that works well in a mix works best .... in the mix!
In general, it is a good idea to EQ the band sound, and discuss that with the band.
Sometimes, the guitar player is the culprit because they EQ at home and come to the rehearsal with too much bass from their amps, which clashes with the actual bass and produces mud. Sometimes the band does not want to discuss it because the guitar sounds great the way it sounds and the guitarists ego cannot abide sacrificing frequencies to the member who only has four strings because 6 were too complicated for them - so the bass has to work around those problems.
However, I know I did set my sound at home when I was much less experienced, and it was pure fire.
I went to the rehearsal and it sounded like flinging mud specks, barely audible and when I turned it up, it was an overpowering mudslide. I dialed everything on the amp and the bass and the pedals until it sounded absolutely great. I took it home with those exact settings and played for myself, and it sounded like a wet fart, so I dialed around until it sounded grand again.
I'm not comfortable admitting how often I repeated that cycle until I learned that in a rock mix, mids are important and mids make you sound honky in the bedroom when you play alone.
In general, mids are your friend. Especially in a context where you're playing with distorted guitars, you want them.
Dialing in a sound that works well in a mix works best .... in the mix!
In general, it is a good idea to EQ the band sound, and discuss that with the band.
Sometimes, the guitar player is the culprit because they EQ at home and come to the rehearsal with too much bass from their amps, which clashes with the actual bass and produces mud. Sometimes the band does not want to discuss it because the guitar sounds great the way it sounds and the guitarists ego cannot abide sacrificing frequencies to the member who only has four strings because 6 were too complicated for them - so the bass has to work around those problems.
However, I know I did set my sound at home when I was much less experienced, and it was pure fire.
I went to the rehearsal and it sounded like flinging mud specks, barely audible and when I turned it up, it was an overpowering mudslide. I dialed everything on the amp and the bass and the pedals until it sounded absolutely great. I took it home with those exact settings and played for myself, and it sounded like a wet fart, so I dialed around until it sounded grand again.
I'm not comfortable admitting how often I repeated that cycle until I learned that in a rock mix, mids are important and mids make you sound honky in the bedroom when you play alone.
Welcome to Talkbass, newcomer - You're in the right place; I hope you stick around.
As you're discovering, the sound you dial in at home NEVER WORKS IN A BAND SETTING.
As you're discovering, the sound you dial in at home NEVER WORKS IN A BAND SETTING.
- Lose the pedals until you can dial in an eq setting with your amp alone that sits in the mix well with the other instruments - focus on "gritty" later. Start by trying:
- Set amp drive/gain level(s) to where you can get a full-but-tight, somewhat articulate tone
- Roll the bass frequencies lower than you set them at home
- Increase the lower mid frequencies
- Then readjust amp drive/gain level(s) - as with the pedal dirt you'll add later, you'll be readjusting drive/gain (dirt) levels as you set your frequency range.
- Once you're EQ settings are right for the mix, add pedals.
- Set pedal levels low at first, making amp EQ tweaks as you increase them - Yep, the interactive nature of EQ and drive/gain/dirt works both ways. You'll get it.
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100% this. If your tone sounds great alone it probably sounds lousy with a band. And that super overdriven/distorted tone that rocks your bedroom vanishes instantly on stage.
It helps to evaluate everything you are competing with and what frequency ranges they are filling. Are the guitars downtuned and filling up a big wide band of low-end frequencies, or clean and twinkling over the top with upper mids? A bass that cuts through one mix is going to sound totally out of place with the other, or won't be audible at all.
Get a good clean tone that sits well in the mix before even starting to add in effects, or you'll just be treading water trying to figure out what's messing up your sound.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
Adding to the great advice already given, be sure you get a long enough cable to get out far in front of your bass amp for sound/volume checking. What you hear right up on the amp is not accurate in terms of what's being projected into the room. You'd be surprised at what 'feels and sounds great' on top of your amp, with the sound rustling your leg hair, versus what people are hearing 15-20' ahead in the audience. Learn what those areas sound like where you need to adjust. Usually people add treble to be heard more on top of their amp, and it's a little overwhelming out front. And that big pillowy bass sound and feel on stage usually means the bass is overwhelming or muddy out front.
Home time is not toan time. Best to use this time for practice.
When your with the band, work things out one at a time. Clean and flat to begin with, then season to taste.
Be mindful of multiple eq stacks. The more units you have applying eq, the farther you're gonna get from a good tone.
Keep it simple and determinate.
When your with the band, work things out one at a time. Clean and flat to begin with, then season to taste.
Be mindful of multiple eq stacks. The more units you have applying eq, the farther you're gonna get from a good tone.
Keep it simple and determinate.
Bedroom tone is useless, and tells you nothing about how it sounds in the mix.
Much of what pleases the ear in isolation will get swallowed up by the sound of guitars and drums in a live situation.
The reality is a good mix tone is rarely pleasant to the ear by itself.
Adjust your tone at rehearsal, with the other instruments present.
The mid frequencies ~250 hz - 1000Hz should be your focus.
Do not try to get more bass by cranking the bass knob.
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Yep. BTW - edited/correct my post; your lower frequency/bass levels will probably end set much lower than you'd expect.
Agreed. IME what sounds perhaps too-tight on stage sounds just right out in the audience.
Also, it generally takes 20-30'' for what's coming out of a typical 250-500 watt bass amp to reach its full effect in a room, a little less for a smaller, lower powered amp.
I can't add anything to the good advice already given really. The only thing I would add is that sometimes guitar or keyboard players use their bedroom tone as well, usually with a lot of low end. So you just get buried. Or a drummer that plays low tom too hard all the time etc.. In other words you play with others that don't know anything about sound either.
Don't let yourself get walked on.
Don't let yourself get walked on.
Another trick:
If you have the ability to play along with tracks through a live-music-volume-capable PA at home, you can get a good baseline on your "live" level by setting your amp on one side of the room and pointing it at an opposite wall. Then go STAND about two feet from the opposite wall, You'll be standing in a small bass trap that will give you a worse-case approximation of what an audience might here. If you can set your eq levels to where it sounds JUST PILLOWY ENOUGH while doing this, you'll be able to season to taste at rehearsal.
If you have the ability to play along with tracks through a live-music-volume-capable PA at home, you can get a good baseline on your "live" level by setting your amp on one side of the room and pointing it at an opposite wall. Then go STAND about two feet from the opposite wall, You'll be standing in a small bass trap that will give you a worse-case approximation of what an audience might here. If you can set your eq levels to where it sounds JUST PILLOWY ENOUGH while doing this, you'll be able to season to taste at rehearsal.
I keep a roll of duct tape in my gig bag for keyboard players. I used to tape over their lower keys, but now I just duct tape their left hand to their lap.
I can only speak to live amps/monitors, as I semi-retired before in-ears became popular for club gigs, by in my experience it's very rare to have a good mix on stage. Usually if everything sounds fantastic and balanced stand 5-feet in front of your amp, it's a total mess 30-feet in front of the stage. The monitors are just to let you hear what you need to hear in order to perform but there's not an expectation of a clean mix on stage that sounds like it would if you were in the audience listening to a performance.
It's hard to give advice without an example or at least a description. What is your sound doing that you don't like? Are you not being heard? Or are you being heard too much in the wrong way? Or some other version of that?
We're hitting this question out of the park via experience we all get. My only disagreement is people who say ditch the effects. Just realize that with the band you Need more high mids and that doesn't sound good at home. Some distortions are scooped and compressed naturally, that's why we seek a holy grail that cuts live. Overdrive can help you cut as well as sustain, while fuzz can be problematic.
What bass are you using? Sometimes it can down to the wrong bass being used. I played a Jazz bass for many years, and had no issues at all. Joined a hard rock band, and the Jazz just didn't work for the sound of that band. Punky/Rock guitar, and a hammer of a drummer. I got a Precision, and everything was just fine. Not saying you need a Precision, or any other bass, but sometimes a certain bass won't fit into the sonic signature of a band.
It's room-dependent in my experience. We're fortunate to have at least four venues monthly with a halfway-decent "room" mix, based on multiple camera-mic recordings. The other rooms, well, we do what we can and just collect our pay.
