yeah, to me, and this is just me, that it seems, the muscians who know every little thing about everything when there playing, dont seem to write the best sounding music, its usually the people who learn enough but just mainly play from the soul, as cheesy as it may sound, people who want to learn every little thing dont seem to want to right good music for the average person, but just write technicly challenging stuff or something, not saying thats a bad thing tho
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Overrated bass players
- Thread starter Bryan
- Start date
- Status
I like Tom Hamilton alot, he deserves the props he gets. He is a solid player and an admitted student of the bass.
What is your problem with Fieldy!?
at the risk of being unpopular - Jaco and Manring are overrated.
To me they make a lot of bizarre noises and strange music. Some people say that anybody who plays fretless tries to be like Jaco. I'm glad I don't play like he did, I play music. Also that pointless hyperbass thing with the 4 detuners - Why? Overall, he only gains an extra 2 notes. Handy if you wanted to tune your bass DGCF at the flick of 4 levers.
To me they make a lot of bizarre noises and strange music. Some people say that anybody who plays fretless tries to be like Jaco. I'm glad I don't play like he did, I play music. Also that pointless hyperbass thing with the 4 detuners - Why? Overall, he only gains an extra 2 notes. Handy if you wanted to tune your bass DGCF at the flick of 4 levers.
Paul A said:
Lol you listen to the beatles and rather the bass is simple as **** and I don't see the whole hype about it. They are just simple bass lines and alot of them suck because listen to penny lane he lets go of the note early and its like note hold pause note hold pause. I really like the bass and it adds to the songs GREATLY but I rather don't see whats so AMAZING about him. Don't **** on me I still like his bass playing I just think he's rather overrated highly.
Strange music eh, I guess we better just keep playing safe, bland, ordinary music so as not to offend anybaody.Delberthot said:at the risk of being unpopular - Jaco and Manring are overrated.
To me they make a lot of bizarre noises and strange music. Some people say that anybody who plays fretless tries to be like Jaco. I'm glad I don't play like he did, I play music. Also that pointless hyperbass thing with the 4 detuners - Why? Overall, he only gains an extra 2 notes. Handy if you wanted to tune your bass DGCF at the flick of 4 levers.
So "technically challenging stuff" can't be played soulfully? You might want to check out a guy named John Coltrane.Chili said:
Elemetal said:
Hmm? A rather poorly written criticism, full of grammatic errors, but everyone has an opinion. Perhaps a listen to "Something" "Hey Bulldog" "Good Night, Tonight", "I want you, she's so heavy" "Rain", "Taxman" and a whole host of other songs from his catalog might change the notion of McCartney being overrated.
re: "at the risk of being unpopular - Jaco and Manring are overrated.
To me they make a lot of bizarre noises and strange music. Some people say that anybody who plays fretless tries to be like Jaco. I'm glad I don't play like he did, I play music."
At the risk of upsetting you, I gotta tell you that your last statement is not only offensive, it's wrongheaded. If you don't hear "music" in Jaco's recordings, then I encourage you to try listening to his music again. Not only was he a brilliant improviser and an absolute innovator on his instrument, he was also a first-rate composer and arranger (ever heard his "Word of Mouth" CD? or the recent Word of Mouth tribute disc?)
As far as trying to "be like Jaco" -- Whether you like it or not, or care to admit it, everyone who plays fretless plays in the shadow of Jaco. I'll generalize (but just a little) to make it plain: His sound on fretless was the one that "took. He was the one who made the instrument a viable jazz instrument.
That's why so many jazz bassists have chosen NOT to play fretless, because the sound was so thorougly defined by what Jaco did (in the same way that many saxophonists, post Charlie Parker, opted for tenor rather than alto). BTW, all of this is generally considered to be common knowledge.
So ... my suggestion would be to dig up those old Weather Report and Jaco solo albums (ever hear the version of Parker's "Donna Lee" with percussionist Don Alias on Jaco's solo debut?) and give them a listen again.
Also, if you want to learn more about Jaco and his tremendous influence on bass players and many other jazz musicians, check out Bill Milkowski's excellent bio, "Jaco," which was recently updated.
To me they make a lot of bizarre noises and strange music. Some people say that anybody who plays fretless tries to be like Jaco. I'm glad I don't play like he did, I play music."
At the risk of upsetting you, I gotta tell you that your last statement is not only offensive, it's wrongheaded. If you don't hear "music" in Jaco's recordings, then I encourage you to try listening to his music again. Not only was he a brilliant improviser and an absolute innovator on his instrument, he was also a first-rate composer and arranger (ever heard his "Word of Mouth" CD? or the recent Word of Mouth tribute disc?)
As far as trying to "be like Jaco" -- Whether you like it or not, or care to admit it, everyone who plays fretless plays in the shadow of Jaco. I'll generalize (but just a little) to make it plain: His sound on fretless was the one that "took. He was the one who made the instrument a viable jazz instrument.
That's why so many jazz bassists have chosen NOT to play fretless, because the sound was so thorougly defined by what Jaco did (in the same way that many saxophonists, post Charlie Parker, opted for tenor rather than alto). BTW, all of this is generally considered to be common knowledge.
So ... my suggestion would be to dig up those old Weather Report and Jaco solo albums (ever hear the version of Parker's "Donna Lee" with percussionist Don Alias on Jaco's solo debut?) and give them a listen again.
Also, if you want to learn more about Jaco and his tremendous influence on bass players and many other jazz musicians, check out Bill Milkowski's excellent bio, "Jaco," which was recently updated.
Alex E said:
I'm with you on that. Paul played the right part for the song, every time out. His lines not only drove the rhythms effectively, but they were melodic. And just like the Beatles were essentially the architects of modern rock, Paul was a founding father of pop/rock bass playing.
Something that's often lost on young or inexperienced players (of every instrument) and listeners: The right note(s), played clearly and simply, beat gaudy displays of technique every time.
I have a problem with Flea's slap based improv. Every one thinks its really cool just cause its really fast. I think it sounds horrible. Don't get me wrong i love RHCP and Flea is one of my favorite bassist of all time and he was probably the one who got me to play bass in the first place. I can't take when people say his slap improv is good.
Short answer for you: The most overrated bass players are anyone that's ever been named the world's greatest bass player. Simple as that. At least to me.
I mean, as good as Jaco was, no one is without faults. Nobody is the world's greatest bass player. Here's a little list of some of them for you in no particular order:
Jaco, Stanley Clarke, Victor Wooten, John Entwhistle, Flea, John Pattitucci, Cliff Burton, Mark King, Marcus Miller, Richard Bona, JACK BRUCE, Steve Bailey, Victor Bailey, Jeff Berlin, Chuck Rainey, Bill Dickens, Billy Sheehan, Stu Hamm, Verdine White, Louis Johnson, Bootsy, Al Caldwell and everyone who plays those damned 9, 11 and 12-string basses (the fool proof way to stay out of gigs for the rest of your career. The theme from Super Mario is not impressive!!! Especially not when played on "the backbreaker")
Now don't get me wrong I've listed some of my favorite bass players up there. It's just that they happen to be really overrated. Doesn't mean I think they suck. Some of them, I love. Others I don't personally like but acknowledge for their contributions to bass playing.
Another, more cynical, way to answer this would be everyone who's ever been on the cover of Bass Player Magazine. But use my first one instead. It upsets fewer people.
I mean, as good as Jaco was, no one is without faults. Nobody is the world's greatest bass player. Here's a little list of some of them for you in no particular order:
Jaco, Stanley Clarke, Victor Wooten, John Entwhistle, Flea, John Pattitucci, Cliff Burton, Mark King, Marcus Miller, Richard Bona, JACK BRUCE, Steve Bailey, Victor Bailey, Jeff Berlin, Chuck Rainey, Bill Dickens, Billy Sheehan, Stu Hamm, Verdine White, Louis Johnson, Bootsy, Al Caldwell and everyone who plays those damned 9, 11 and 12-string basses (the fool proof way to stay out of gigs for the rest of your career. The theme from Super Mario is not impressive!!! Especially not when played on "the backbreaker")
Now don't get me wrong I've listed some of my favorite bass players up there. It's just that they happen to be really overrated. Doesn't mean I think they suck. Some of them, I love. Others I don't personally like but acknowledge for their contributions to bass playing.
Another, more cynical, way to answer this would be everyone who's ever been on the cover of Bass Player Magazine. But use my first one instead. It upsets fewer people.
Tampabass said:
What if a "gaudy display of technique" is the right note(s)? I fail to see how playing "simply" is inherently better than not doing so. I agree that trying to play crazy slap-tapping solos every second gets really old really fast, but there are plenty of bassists who play technically demanding basslines because those are precisely what the song needs; having the bass play straight whole notes on "The Real Me" would make the song suck royally, no matter how soulfully or clearly or simply those notes were played. Simplicity is not somehow inherently better than complexity, and a display of technique is not automatically devoid of feeling.
RSchuster said:
I didn't say playing simply was inherently better. I said, or tried to say, that playing the right note(s) at the right time for the right song is always better (than the alternative).
Nothing wrong with having great technique, and using it in support of the song or an improvisation, etc. But "gaudy" is never good. According to the dictionary, "gaudy" means "bright and showy, but lacking in good taste." That's what I was getting at.
I think what you have is a spectrum..
Some players, like McCarney are low on the technical skill, but VERY high in musical talent, and ability to compose rhythm and harmony.
On the other end of the spectrum you get Victor Wooten or Billy Sheehan who are among the most technically proficient players I can name, but lack (for me) in musical writing skill (not saying they don't have anything good, just saying they're no McCartney hit machine).
Also and especially in the case of Sheehan who admits himself to this, many a lack in a deep grasp of theory and science behind the music which I believe is one of the keys making a musician "perfectly rounded" in his ability to contribute to a band. Guys like Will Lee, James Jamerson, or Jaco could jump right into a jam and make a bass line that would take many days or weeks to come up with thru trial and error. I mean Jamerson recorded Marvin Gaye's "What's going on" while ****faced drunk laying on the floor after reading the chord charts on his first take.. it was all improv... he later wrote it down on sheet music, and when challenged to play it again note for note on a $100 bet, he did exactly that live.. I have that sticked at the top of "recordings" now.
Manring is an example of a technical bassist that I also see having a lot of depth in his knowledge of music, and this leads to him having some really cool harmonic tunes.
You also have the like of Cliff Williams, and Adam Clayton (to name two famous bassists), and the dozens upon dozens of pop rock and modern day bands that are out now with "Root note" bassists that clearly lack in any deep understanding, or ability to play chromatic syncopated lines, that or they're band leaders will not allow them to!
..
Some players, like McCarney are low on the technical skill, but VERY high in musical talent, and ability to compose rhythm and harmony.
On the other end of the spectrum you get Victor Wooten or Billy Sheehan who are among the most technically proficient players I can name, but lack (for me) in musical writing skill (not saying they don't have anything good, just saying they're no McCartney hit machine).
Also and especially in the case of Sheehan who admits himself to this, many a lack in a deep grasp of theory and science behind the music which I believe is one of the keys making a musician "perfectly rounded" in his ability to contribute to a band. Guys like Will Lee, James Jamerson, or Jaco could jump right into a jam and make a bass line that would take many days or weeks to come up with thru trial and error. I mean Jamerson recorded Marvin Gaye's "What's going on" while ****faced drunk laying on the floor after reading the chord charts on his first take.. it was all improv... he later wrote it down on sheet music, and when challenged to play it again note for note on a $100 bet, he did exactly that live.. I have that sticked at the top of "recordings" now.
Manring is an example of a technical bassist that I also see having a lot of depth in his knowledge of music, and this leads to him having some really cool harmonic tunes.
You also have the like of Cliff Williams, and Adam Clayton (to name two famous bassists), and the dozens upon dozens of pop rock and modern day bands that are out now with "Root note" bassists that clearly lack in any deep understanding, or ability to play chromatic syncopated lines, that or they're band leaders will not allow them to!
..The thing is, I would argue that, despite any knowledge of music whatsoever, Adam Clayton has always played exactly the right bassline for every song he's played on. I can't think of any way that the bassline for "Where the Streets Have No Name" could possibly be better . . .
Oh, and Tampabass . . . I misunderstood you. The way I read what you wrote, I thought you were implying that a show of technical ability is gaudy in and of itself. Sorry for getting a bit jumpy.
Oh, and Tampabass . . . I misunderstood you. The way I read what you wrote, I thought you were implying that a show of technical ability is gaudy in and of itself. Sorry for getting a bit jumpy.
- Status
