P Bass Upsides?

[georgedubyah]

What's the deal with P basses in particular making it into every corner of music while being so clearly limited? I understand the need for a thumpy, vintage tone sometimes, but a PJ will do it just as well while allowing for far more sounds outside of that niche in my opinion. Especially just going through a DI, which I tend to do in the vast majority of cases (I feel much more aware of my playing and volume when I get out what I put in), the pickup in post '57 P basses, especially by itself, feels restrictive, insensitive, and generally counterintuitive.

To be clear, my issue is not with the pickup on its own, as touched on before. In fact, reverse P pickups, especially when used in PJ configurations, are among my favorite pickups I've used. The problem lies in the standard P pickup and the fact that, on a normal P bass, that's all you get. The bass side being closer to the neck means a thumpy, muddy, tone- and the opposite for the treble side, having plenty of snap thanks to being closer to the bridge. Sounds great until you realize that that's ALL IT DOES.

Getting snap out of the bottom end is near impossible, even with the tone cranked, and the high end is crispy and bright all of the time (though somehow is not sensitive at all to light touch or strumming). It seems as if the whole point of the split-coil is to force extremes out of the bass all of the time, which may not be noticeable through preamps and pedals and such but is glaringly obvious through DI. And to seal it all off, you've got to play a log of a neck with strangely wide string spacing, making it even harder to be articulate than it already was.

Again, a reverse P sounds great. A reverse P sounds balanced. A PJ sounds balanced, reversed or not. I am sincerely wondering, why would you choose to spend considerable money on such a flawed and limited bass when reverse P and PJ basses are available for the same price with far more room for tone adaptation and the ability to produce the vintage sound that so many people say they look for in a P bass? I will gladly give the P a second chance if you can explain to me any actual benefit to owning one, and of course I'll be sure to look for what you bring up when I give it that chance, but I just really can't see the point.

 

[Fondsdale]

Seems like you have your mind made up already

Plenty of top tier pros have done just fine never (or rarely) playing a standard P. It's definitely not required that you own one.

 

[MrAB4003]

What's the deal with P basses in particular making it into every corner of music while being so clearly limited?

In short, tradition. A lot of bassists (and record producers) want the same bass sound that has been on records since the early 1960s. The P Bass also has low mid frequencies that sound good with a bass drum and stays out of the way in a dense mix of instruments. This is especially true when they're strung with flats.

The tonal frequencies of a P Bass is very narrow and that frequency range lies in the low mids. That's what's so limiting about them. The second pickup in a PJ bass widens the frequencies. So does reversing the P pickup. Thankfully, there are plenty of other models that have very wide tonal frequencies.

 

[retslock]

What's the deal with P basses in particular making it into every corner of music while being so clearly limited? I understand the need for a thumpy, vintage tone sometimes, but a PJ will do it just as well while allowing for far more sounds outside of that niche in my opinion. Especially just going through a DI, which I tend to do in the vast majority of cases (I feel much more aware of my playing and volume when I get out what I put in), the pickup in post '57 P basses, especially by itself, feels restrictive, insensitive, and generally counterintuitive.

To be clear, my issue is not with the pickup on its own, as touched on before. In fact, reverse P pickups, especially when used in PJ configurations, are among my favorite pickups I've used. The problem lies in the standard P pickup and the fact that, on a normal P bass, that's all you get. The bass side being closer to the neck means a thumpy, muddy, tone- and the opposite for the treble side, having plenty of snap thanks to being closer to the bridge. Sounds great until you realize that that's ALL IT DOES.

Getting snap out of the bottom end is near impossible, even with the tone cranked, and the high end is crispy and bright all of the time (though somehow is not sensitive at all to light touch or strumming). It seems as if the whole point of the split-coil is to force extremes out of the bass all of the time, which may not be noticeable through preamps and pedals and such but is glaringly obvious through DI. And to seal it all off, you've got to play a log of a neck with strangely wide string spacing, making it even harder to be articulate than it already was.

Again, a reverse P sounds great. A reverse P sounds balanced. A PJ sounds balanced, reversed or not. I am sincerely wondering, why would you choose to spend considerable money on such a flawed and limited bass when reverse P and PJ basses are available for the same price with far more room for tone adaptation and the ability to produce the vintage sound that so many people say they look for in a P bass? I will gladly give the P a second chance if you can explain to me any actual benefit to owning one, and of course I'll be sure to look for what you bring up when I give it that chance, but I just really can't see the point.

String basses existed for a very long time before electric basses came along. They were for the most part, four strings and a sound box. Any tonal variation came from materials, construction and playing style/ability. Many bass players don't need or want a variety of tones and much of the music made since electric basses came along didn't require a broad tonal range. The Precision bass suits the needs of a great many bass players. Nobody demands that you like or want one.
Play what you want and accept that others will do the same. It's not necessary that you understand their preferences.

 

[Whale]

For the longest time I persuaded myself that Precisions were “meh”, at best. I figured there were literally dozens of other models that could do the same job as a P Bass while also providing many other useable tones. I stuck with this outlook for decades.

And then, about eight years ago and for reasons I can’t quite remember, I tried a Precision and instantly saw the light. The sound fit the music I was playing perfectly. It not only cut through the mix nicely, I was easily able to adjust the tone to accommodate the varied acoustics found in the venues we play.

I like the Precision sound so much that I built one for myself. I used a special order set of Seymour Duncan pickups that put out a tremendous amount of “thump”… the type that hits you in the chest with every note. I could not be happier. It is, for me, the perfect bass.

 

[el murdoque]

My #1 bass and my backup bass are boutique 6 strings with dual pickups.
When I bought a P bass, it was exactly because of all the restrictions it imposes on me.
When playing my 6 string in the "cash-register" area of the fretboard, I usually have at least two, often three possibilities to play a note and I can decide between playing it on a short, fat string or on a longer and skinnier one.
The P bass has one pickup with one sound. The fretboard ends early, only 20 frets to play on. Only four strings.
Note choice severely diminished, I mostly get a single position to play a certain note, and suddenly the focus shifts on how to play that note. I can't favor one of the pickups and I can't influence the tone by choosing where on the neck to play, so it's right hand position and technique only.

You can view this from two points.
1. This is restricting. I don't have a choice anywhere. It's limited in every single way and I hate it.
2. This is liberating. The wealth of choices is taken from me and I can use the freed up mind capacity to focus on how I play each note.

 

[mcnach]

What's the deal with P basses in particular making it into every corner of music while being so clearly limited? I understand the need for a thumpy, vintage tone sometimes, but a PJ will do it just as well while allowing for far more sounds outside of that niche in my opinion. Especially just going through a DI, which I tend to do in the vast majority of cases (I feel much more aware of my playing and volume when I get out what I put in), the pickup in post '57 P basses, especially by itself, feels restrictive, insensitive, and generally counterintuitive.

To be clear, my issue is not with the pickup on its own, as touched on before. In fact, reverse P pickups, especially when used in PJ configurations, are among my favorite pickups I've used. The problem lies in the standard P pickup and the fact that, on a normal P bass, that's all you get. The bass side being closer to the neck means a thumpy, muddy, tone- and the opposite for the treble side, having plenty of snap thanks to being closer to the bridge. Sounds great until you realize that that's ALL IT DOES.

Getting snap out of the bottom end is near impossible, even with the tone cranked, and the high end is crispy and bright all of the time (though somehow is not sensitive at all to light touch or strumming). It seems as if the whole point of the split-coil is to force extremes out of the bass all of the time, which may not be noticeable through preamps and pedals and such but is glaringly obvious through DI. And to seal it all off, you've got to play a log of a neck with strangely wide string spacing, making it even harder to be articulate than it already was.

Again, a reverse P sounds great. A reverse P sounds balanced. A PJ sounds balanced, reversed or not. I am sincerely wondering, why would you choose to spend considerable money on such a flawed and limited bass when reverse P and PJ basses are available for the same price with far more room for tone adaptation and the ability to produce the vintage sound that so many people say they look for in a P bass? I will gladly give the P a second chance if you can explain to me any actual benefit to owning one, and of course I'll be sure to look for what you bring up when I give it that chance, but I just really can't see the point.

Hmmm, I don't know, I hear a lot of non-muddy non-thumpy Precision bass sounds out there, but it's ok if you don't like the P bass, you're allowed.

Log neck, strangely wide string spacing? no comment

With regards to the reverse-P... I agree that reverse makes more sense (to me!), but I own a couple of reverse and another couple of non-reverse Precision type basses, and the difference is not that big that makse me to absolutely prefer one over the other. Different pickups and strings have more of an impact, IMO.

 

[InvisibleMan]

Just to chime in here, I must confess to generally having been quite anti-P-bass for most of the last 25 years of playing, BUT!

..recently I have completely come around.

My friend has a cheap but very playable shell pink parts-caster P bass which he bought used and put an Aero pickup in and a hipshot bridge. I played it at his place by chance, and it is honestly one of the loveliest basses to play I have ever experienced.

Since then I have been playing all my P-J and J basses on the neck pickup and loving them all. I finally 'got' it after being a bridge pickup player for years.

If you set your expectations to only want one thing, there is a subtlety and timbre to them that is simply amazing. It's like eating a plain chocolate bar with nothing fancy added - one flavour, and a lovely one if you care what chocolate tastes like - but you probably wouldn't want that to be the only thing you have.

 

[dougjwray]

"Maybe now you can't hear them... but you will..."--Jimi Hendrix

 

[Kerem Koseoglu]

It's my subjective experience that P pickups designed to blend with a J pickup often differ from their stand-alone counterparts. They might use different windings or materials to favor blending over individual use.

An original P pickup is usually designed to stand on its own, which doesn't necessarily make it the best candidate to blend with a J. On a purpose built PJ, either pickup seems to offer merely partial "sound power" when soloed; which sums up to a powerful (but not over-powering) sound when they are blended. Character-wise, the P adds pillowy-ness while the J adds burpy-ness.

My favorite setting is a slight P emphasis - right at the point where the low mids just kick in. That's where I hear the strengths of both pickups the best.

At the moment, I own a Fender Pro II P and a Sadowsky MetroLine PJ, both maple 5-strings. In passive mode, the Sadowsky's soloed P pickup doesn't have the pillowy, meaty body of my Fender P. But once the J is blended in, it develops the fore-mentioned character the Fender can't approach. My former Yamaha BBP35 behaved similarly.

I use both basses, but with different strings and in different contexts. They can't really replace each other. I'm sure there are plenty of examples that contradict my experience, but that's been my observation so far.

 

[Gosho]

For me its just simply, clever, honest, and built to serve the song rather than the ego. It doesnt offer endless options, because the philosophy is that great tone comes more from the hands and the feel than from knobs and electronics. Just minimalism in musical form, one voice, always in the right place- neither more nor less.

 

[fretno]

It’s a solid one trick. It’s the sound of our lifetime in recorded modern music and for me just fits in where I want it. I do like a J for the same reasons.

 

[BaltBass5]

I play P-Basses and don't have thumpy, muddy or boomy tone....EVER.

 

[Yahboy]

One of my P, no muddy no boomy, just crispy grind !

another P , warmth round clean P vibe without laid back tone.

another P also, woody P vibe , muddy ??? Hmmm.......

here is the Charvel PJ stock Dimarzio DP126 with reverse P pickup . I sold all my Jazz bass once i mod this Charvel PJ fully passive. No regret !

 

[cannedsardines]

Depending on the J pickup, PJ basses can have a lot of hum. The main advantage in my mind is the more comfortable (for me!) J neck. I prefer the P sound probably because my first bass (Yamaha RBX260) was a P-style instrument.

This kind of thread comes up frequently. I have a Sire P7 and it has a ton of controls and the PJ configuration, but I really just want the P pickup and thinner neck. Now that's a sub $1k bass. If you spend 5x that on a custom shop Precision you will get fewer controls and options for the same reason fancy restaurants don't have salt and pepper shakers at the table.

 

[Velvet Reem]

It depends a bit on what sort of music someone plays and which bass guitar you find comfortable for that. Your fingers and the type of strings also play a big part in the sound you produce.
Personally, I prefer to play my Fender Precision Elite bass. The reason isn’t so much the possibilities it offers, but the neck, which transitions from a C-shape to a D-shape.
The fact that this bass is passive/active and also has a JB pickup is a bonus, but in practice it boils down to me playing 90% passively via the PB pickup and only switching to active when I (think I) need a bit of extra boost, though it’s not really a necessity.
I don’t use the JB pickup because it’s not to my taste.
Everything a bass guitar has to offer as a musical instrument is always a personal choice. In my case, I often say, less is more. You’re richer than you think ;-)

 

[commonplayer]

Most of your favorite songs were probably recorded with a P bass, that should tell you something. It just sounds good in a mix and hits a sweet spot of what people (perhaps unconsciously) want to hear from a bass

 

[Lo-E]

Simplicity
Reliability
Playability

The enormously wide variety of recordings on which a P Bass was used torpedos the idea that a P isn’t versatile. On how many of the literally thousands of recordings that feature a P bass would you say the bass sounds lacking?

It’s okay not to like P Basses. You’re under no obligation to like or dislike any bass.

 

[ph0rk]

Sometimes a format or form factor just wins; whether or not is the technically superior choice for all use cases.

If you don't like p basses there isn't any law that you have to use them. Plus, you can put a split single in a soapbar housing in the same position on any shaped bass body you like (around the position of the 19th and 20th frets, if measuring backwards from the bridge).

 

[Nuisance]

Some players simply want a simplistic bass with one realty good sound. The P offers that.

Its a one trick pony, but what it does, it does very well.