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PA as bass amp?

I hope this is the right place/forum to ask this and with apologies if this has already been covered. I saw a few posts about PA's as bass amps but I did not see this specifically addressed:
If one was to plug into a PA to use as an amp, do you *have* to use a pre-amp pedal or DI in front of it or can you just plug in and play?
Thanks gang.
 
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It does work, if you’re using a passive bass better to DI and use onboard mixer EQ. It will work straight in but some of the highs may be missing.

A preamp/DI gives you better bass friendly tone options.

I use a Sansamp pre/DI and it works great, if I have more room and time I’ll use my Alembic F-1X.


Thankyou. Yes I should have clarified that. I would be using a passive bass.
 
I hope this is the right place/forum to ask this and with apologies if this has already been covered. I saw a few posts about PA's as bass amps but I did not see this specifically addressed:
If one was to plug into a PA to use as an amp, do you *have* to use a pre-amp pedal or DI in front of it or can you just plug in and play?
Thanks gang.
Plug and set gain, then play.
 
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It's going to depend on the mixer. The 1/4" input on many mixers is line lever only. If you plug in a bass, you will get a signal, but there will not be enough gain to push the output of the board hard enough to be useful in most circumstances.

Some boards do have inputs that are labeled "high-Z" or "instrument level." These should work fine with a bass guitar.
 
It's going to depend on the mixer. The 1/4" input on many mixers is line lever only. If you plug in a bass, you will get a signal, but there will not be enough gain to push the output of the board hard enough to be useful in most circumstances.

Some boards do have inputs that are labeled "high-Z" or "instrument level." These should work fine with a bass guitar.

Yeah I've got one of those little Yamaha PA's in the basement like everybody has you know. EMX something I think.
I'll have to dig it out and check. I just thought it might be something to try.
 
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I hope this is the right place/forum to ask this and with apologies if this has already been covered. I saw a few posts about PA's as bass amps but I did not see this specifically addressed:
If one was to plug into a PA to use as an amp, do you *have* to use a pre-amp pedal or DI in front of it or can you just plug in and play?
Thanks gang.

You don’t “need” to use one...but your bass will likely sound better If you use one...
 
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IIRC, all the Yamaha EMX-series stuff had low-level, high impedance inputs on every channel, so it should work fine. The channel EQ probably isn't going to be all that conducive to tone shaping, but you might not need all that much. Actually, a small powered mixer is a really good way to go for a practice rig -- you can input a music source like an Ipod (kids, your Dads can explain) in stereo, and the headphone amp is strong enough to drive headphones to a comfortable level if you don't want to use a speaker. And you can leave your metronome (again kids...ask your Dads :)) patched in for when you want to use that.
 
I hope this is the right place/forum to ask this and with apologies if this has already been covered. I saw a few posts about PA's as bass amps but I did not see this specifically addressed:
If one was to plug into a PA to use as an amp, do you *have* to use a pre-amp pedal or DI in front of it or can you just plug in and play?
Thanks gang.

You don't have to use a DI to plug direct into most modern boards, but it's a good idea. Similarly, a preamp at your feet or in the backline isn't a hard requirement, but it can do good things for you.

The point of a DI is to reduce the portion of the signal cable that is high-impedance and unbalanced. The former gives you the infamous "tone suck" through capacitive loss as cable length increases, while the unbalanced signal line is prone to pick up noise. XLR cables can be dozens or hundreds of feet long without causing these problems (at least not to anywhere near the same degree) because the circuit they are used in is specifically engineered to solve them, thus allowing the soundman to be out in "front of house" using his own ears and his own fingers to mix based on what the audience is hearing, instead of having the board backstage and having to be content with using an assistant either to give mixing cues or have their fingers on the faders.

Now, if the band is mixing themselves (been there, done that, can't recommend it but sometimes you just gotta get 'er done), or if you're using a powered PA speaker cab as a bass amp (been there, done that too, it's actually not a terrible idea) then you probably don't have a 300-foot stage snake between your bass and the input; your 20-foot cable could very easily reach to a board one side of the drumkit or behind the curtain on your side. Most modern mixers can handle an unbalanced signal without breaking a sweat (the connections involved mean you're just "wasting" the cold conductor), and at least a few are specifically engineered for Hi-Z inputs. Likewise, most powered PA cabs will take an unbalanced 1/4" in with no problem.

The X-factor is going to be your tone-shaping ability, both in general and what you yourself can control. That's where a preamp comes into play. The channel strip of the mixer can be a preamp, and most powered speakers have some rudimentary tone-shaping, however these are usually geared toward tweaking the source to sit in the mix or to avoid feedback. Anything you want to do to start with "your" tone, including EQ, is going to require tools in the signal chain between bass and PA.

Now, we can debate who really should have the most control over your EQ; I've played gigs with soundmen that didn't have a clue how to do anything but bump faders, leaving me to my own devices on EQ to avoid causing earthquakes or clashing with the guitars. I've also run sound for instrumentalists that insisted on keeping their V-shaped bedroom scoop, that I had no prayer of undoing at the board to give the audience anything like a balanced and audible mix of the band. Neither is ideal; the ideal scenario is a player who knows how to get his instrument to naturally sit in the overall stage mix, and a soundman who knows his system well enough to tweak that mix to fit the venue. But, we live in the real world, and reality is rarely ideal.

In summary, what you need on-stage depends on the overall setup. By using the PA, you're making the PA part of The Complete Instrument™. The difference is going to be that this major element of the sound you hear on stage, in turn determining your ability to play in time, in tune and dynamically with your group, is no longer under your direct control (unless you're using PA components as your stage rig separate from the house PA). For most knowledgeable, competent players, having at least some control over what the soundman gets is a good thing.
 
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I've plugged direct into a QSC k12.2 "Pa" amplified speaker after a Zoom multi effects pedal... I more or less use the controls on my bass for tone variations and a couple minor patches in the zoom pedls. I use the other input on the QSC as monitor for my vocals. That setup is more or less for when I know I'll be tied up setting up PA and Lights. As for the rest of the band, the mains carry the deep bottom, and they get as much bass as they want through their monitors.

I have gone so far as to use a much smaller QSC cp8 at a practice. Not a great idea, but at 20+ lbs, if I know I'm going to be running late... or if my back is hurting... 20+ lbs sounds better than my grunting every time I stand up the next day.

I'm not as concerned as some about the tone I'm getting on stage or at practice, realizing that the soundman is going to be the final determination of where my tone sits in the mix. I just make sure I'm giving something that he can work with.
 
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A DI box does two things:

1. Sets the signal from your instrument to mic level. You need this if your mixer only takes mic level inputs (via an XLR cable). If your mixer can take instrument level inputs then you don't need the DI (for this).
2. Changes the signal from unbalanced to balanced. An unbalanced signal can pick up noise and it gets worse the longer the cable is. If you will need more than 15' of cable to reach the mixer then you need a DI box. If less than 15', then you don't need the DI box.

Most preamps do the first 2 things too, but they also have controls to allow you to shape the tone. For example, I love the Ampeg tone so I use an Ampeg preamp to get that tone. If you don't need the tone shaping, then you don't need a preamp.

These 3 factors should help you decide if you need a DI box, preamp, or none. But I recommend that having a preamp that can do all these things is always a plus.

(Edited to say *instrument* level in #1)
 
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You can plug direct into one of the channels of the EMX and use the processing of that channel but for best results using a bass specific preamp will yield better results.
Wondering what this means...or is it just a little mix-up and you meant to say "instrument level"?
There are different voltage levels of signals, understanding those can avoid overloading inputs than can cause unwanted noise, distortion and in some cases damage. 1/4" inputs can be instrument level for passive instruments like guitar or bass or line level for higher output active basses, electric keyboards or drum machines. XLR inputs likewise can be low level passive, ribbon or dynamic microphone or passive transformer DI'd instruments. XLR inputs can also be phantom powered, 1 volt line level signals from "hot" sources like tube mics, active condenser mics, active DI boxes. It is crucial to match those ins and outs properly to avoid proper gain staging, noise, distortion or damage. When in doubt always check the mfg spec sheet.
 
You can plug direct into one of the channels of the EMX and use the processing of that channel but for best results using a bass specific preamp will yield better results.

There are different voltage levels of signals, understanding those can avoid overloading inputs than can cause unwanted noise, distortion and in some cases damage. 1/4" inputs can be instrument level for passive instruments like guitar or bass or line level for higher output active basses, electric keyboards or drum machines. XLR inputs likewise can be low level passive, ribbon or dynamic microphone or passive transformer DI'd instruments. XLR inputs can also be phantom powered, 1 volt line level signals from "hot" sources like tube mics, active condenser mics, active DI boxes. It is crucial to match those ins and outs properly to avoid proper gain staging, noise, distortion or damage. When in doubt always check the mfg spec sheet.
Uhmmm...I appreciate the effort expended in this thoughtful and informative response, but the post to which I was referring has already been corrected and my questioning of the poster's error has been deleted. But thanks again... very enlightening! ;)
 
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Uhmmm...I appreciate the effort expended in this thoughtful and informative response, but the post to which I was referring has already been corrected and my questioning of the poster's error has been deleted. But thanks again... very enlightening! ;)
No worries, that paragraph will go in an articles I am writing tentatively titled "uncommon knowledge" about things taken for granted that perhaps shouldn't be. -
 
I had to play through a power amp and PA cabinet one time. Bass went DI to amp and my P Bass Elite sounded really awesome. Probably the due to the lack of Bass amp coloration.
I also knew a player who did the same sort of thing and used a Bass Rockman for a preamp for a quickie set up and take down guest act. Worked out great.
 
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