• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

PA System question

#21
Really? So if I've been buying a crappy slice from the joint next door and then one day you show up with gourmet Neapolitan, bufalo mozzarella, organic locally sourced wood fired pizza, you would just expect me to pay you for part of it? Did I ask you to buy pizza? Did I ask you to specifically exclude me from any of the decision making process that led you to buy a $45 quattro formaggio?

If I'm taking the bus to work everyday, I don't owe you $100,000 just because you decide to pick me up in a Ferrari.
 
#23
bassguppy said:
the drummer???


:smug:
Click to expand...

Front guy. :)

He’s actually my and the guitar player’s boss at work, but he’s doing a good job, and he’s not afraid to lug stuff. I’m actually trying to keep him from doing some things. Next is to teach him to wrap cables over/under instead of the palm/elbow thing.


As for the thread subject, I would at least expect them to do some lugging, and if they didn’t know how to wire things up or willing to be trained, they should do all the lugging while I wired things up.

If they didn’t, then I’d have to hit them up for a piece off the top.
 
#26
I own the PA in the bands that I'm in, and I don't ask for a share. But, I do expect people to help with load-in and setup. I put a lot of thought into it, and here's my reasoning.

- I want the PA that I want, without having to compromise on what is easy for me to run, lug around, set-up, and sounds good. It's mine if I leave the band as well.

- I also work in a couple bands, and I want to be able to use the PA with whatever act I want out any issue.

- I also do pickup bands using subs, and it's easier to get a quality player if you can give a better paycheck. I'd rather forgo getting an extra cut for a PA if it means a more reliable stream of happy musicians and more bookings.
 
#27
Chat about it. However it's also important to consider that not everyone in the band needs/uses the P.A. system equally. ie. vocalists NEED the P.A., drummers most often don't. For bassists and guitarists, their own amps is often enough, and a P.A. is not needed. Why would they pay for something they don't use/need? Eg. Did the vocalist pay for the drummers new cymbals? As the venues get bigger, then everyone starts using the P.A., but also, said venues often have their own P.A. no? For the gigs where the the venue is large, yet does not have a house P.A. and everyone in the band will need it, well then everyone can pitch in some of the gig money for that night. But if two nights later you're playing a smaller gig with less pay, where the other band members don't use/need the P.A. then perhaps don't expect them to pay for it.
It's something to chat about.
 
#28
You own the P.A., haul it, set it up, run it and take the responsibility for its maintenance?

You are definitely entitled to compensation, you are being taken for granted and shame on your bandmates for not being pro enough to bring this up themselves.

Similar to what others have posted, in my 5-man band our singer is essentially in your position and in exchange for that he gets a double cut (e.g, $1,200 job, the four of us get $200 each and he gets $400). And we ALL help with set-up and teardown (in fact I have never been in any band where that wasn't the case). But he's also not hitting us up for money when it's time to fix a cabinet or buy light bulbs or put tires on the trailer, cause that's what that 2nd cut is covering.
 
#29
I think the OP has give us a clue into the kind of people in his band... I am one of the moochers. The guitarist in one band owns the PA, and he's got a habit of upgrading once in a while. This led to me having to take my old Peavey CS-400 home Tuesday, but I digress. The drummer in the other band owns the PA, and when he needs a few $ for repairs I chip in without question.

I make it a point to be at gigs early enough to help with load in and set up. I also stick around afterward to tear down and do some heavy lifting. I have also offered to put some money into the PA fund from time to time, which has always been declined.

Bottom line is that if I'm getting free PA use, then I'm going to try to keep the PA owner happy so that free PA use don't end. I have to wonder why the OP's band mates aren't picking up more of the slack. I feel guilty as hell when I don't.

- Paul
 
#30
Our guitarist owns the PA, but I contribute by making and maintaining cables at no charge. I also own 4 of 5 vocal mics and all power cabling/hot boxes etc. and 2 of our floor wedges. We all help with the setup and carrying duties. The key player owns and maintains the lights and does a lot of promoting & booking.

I also own my own full PA (JBL Cabarets, Crown & Carvin Power, A&H Mixer, etc) that we can use for smaller functions. All i all I think we're good with the arrangement, but there's no excuse for not helping with carrying and setting up the system in my opinion.
 
#31
Thanks for all the responses. I think what was most surprising to me was the number of people who own the PA but don't ask/expect anything in return. Maybe bassists are just more generous than other musicians :)

I really should have discussed this with the band before volunteering to supply the PA but that's water under the bridge now. In the end, I suggested to the guys that for private functions we should add a few extra dollars to our price quote for the PA and that seemed to go over well. For our usual bar gigs I'm not looking for anything because the pay around here isn't great and we don't play a whole lot of bar gigs where the PA isn't supplied anyways.

I think this forum is absolutely fantastic. I greatly appreciate the honest and frank opinions and advice you guys provide. It definitely helps broaden your perspective and allows you to look at things from a different angle. Thanks and check out the Chicks at Shows thread on Monday for pics from our wedding gig this Saturday night :)
 
#32
chunkylover73 said:
Thanks for all the responses. I think what was most surprising to me was the number of people who own the PA but don't ask/expect anything in return. Maybe bassists are just more generous than other musicians :)
Click to expand...

The story of how I acquired my PA:

Three piece band needed a PA. We decide to all pay up a 3rd. Guitarist quits after 3 payments - he forfeits what he put in towards it (he didnt ask for anything back, though we did offer). Drummer and I start a 2 piece band and continue playing & paying half each. 2 years after its paid off the Drummer quits. Since he didnt need its use he told me to keep it, took the monitors that he paid for himself, and asked that if I ever sold it (which he knew I would not) to give him half. I agreed to that.

When I entered into my new band I already had the PA. No one asked me to supply it, but I have it and as I also sing, Im the one who needs it. Extra perc that our 2 keys players can also use it, but it has come to replace my bass amp (less equip. to haul) and sounds pretty sweet!
 
#33
Slightly off-topic but although the OP is being taken advantage of, my experience has been that it's better for a band to roll that way (i.e., one or at the most two members owns all the P.A. and are compensated accordingly). The deal where everyone in a band all chips in and buys a shared P.A almost always ends badly when a member leaves or the band folds. I know of one band where two of the members haven't spoken to each for 14 years because of how the P.A. situation went down when they broke up.

ExaltBass, it appears, has almost an ideal situation where everyone's brought pieces and parts to the table and it all fits, but that doesn't happen very often. OTOH I would guess it assures some pretty solid security for everyone in Exalt's band! :D
 
#34
jaywa said:
Slightly off-topic but although the OP is being taken advantage of, my experience has been that it's better for a band to have one or at the most two members own the P.A. and be compensated accordingly. The deal where everyone in a new band all chips in and buys a shared P.A almost always ends badly. I know of one band that broke up 14 years ago and two of the members haven't spoken to each other since for that very reason.
Click to expand...

I'd say the OP is not being taken advantage of on the basis that he did not consult the band prior to making the PA purchase (as far as I understand, anyways). If he would have said 'Hey guys, Im thinking about buying a PA, what do you guys think about allocating a little bit of our gig pay to offset the costs of maintenance and transportation?' and they responded 'No, but get the PA anyway' they would be taking advantage of him. Showing up with a new toy and then asking to be compensated isnt exactly fair. What if someone in the band isnt prepared to take that cut, small as it may be, in gig pay because they need it? How fair is it to that guy?

As he stated, they did okay the OP's suggestion of taking a slightly higher cut from their better paying gigs. I think, given this particuar situation, that is quite generous of them, especially since thats all the OP asked for.

jaywa said:
ExaltBass, it appears, has almost an ideal situation where everyone's brought pieces and parts to the table and it all fits, but it's very rare that happens. OTOH I would guess it assures some pretty solid security for everyone in Exalt's band! :D
Click to expand...

Id say just the opposite. What if the person who owns the main speakers or mixer/power amp decides they no longer want to be in the band, or just quits in a fit of rage? Now thet need replacements, and quick!
 
#35
MatticusMania said:
As he stated, they did okay the OP's suggestion of taking a slightly higher cut from their better paying gigs. I think, given this particuar situation, that is quite generous of them, especially since thats all the OP asked for.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but the OP's bandmates also need to get off their lazy asses and help him with setup and teardown... unless he would prefer to keep doing that all himself to avoid any mishaps, which would totally be his prerogative.

What I meant by "security" in Exalt's case is, none of the band members can really be "fired" because then the band would be missing not only a member, but a chunk of its production gear. If one of the members decides to quit, then yes his band is hosed... but it doesn't sound like that's imminent.
 
#36
jaywa said:
Agreed, but the OP's bandmates also need to get off their lazy asses and help him with setup and teardown... unless he would prefer to keep doing that all himself to avoid any mishaps, which would totally be his prerogative.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

What I meant by "security" in Exalt's case is, none of the band members can really be "fired" because then the band would be missing not only a member, but a chunk of its production gear. If one of the members decides to quit, then yes his band is hosed... but it doesn't sound like that's imminent.
Click to expand...

Also quite true. If the bandleader were to have a problem with someone being an asshat he would have to consider, 'is it better to lose the (insert piece of PA asshat owns) than allow this person to stay in the band?'.
 
#37
I own 75% of our PA, we were a 4 piece, it was 25% each, 2 members left and I bought out their shares. We are now a 3 piece, the singer/guitarist still owns 25%. I lug it to gigs but we all set up and tear down and I don't ask or expect any extra cut. I am an electronics engineer so do the maintenance myself, and I don't mind that. Our previous PA was owned outright by the singer/guitarist, he never asked for extra (but I maintained it). We only changed because it was just too heavy to lug about.

I don't mind lugging it to gigs as we all do our share. The drummer has a car full of drums and lights, the guitarist carries his gear and more lights and backdrop, and I carry the PA and my bass gear. If anyone is unhappy with their lot they say so and something is done about it.

But in your situation I would certainly expect help in setting up and tearing down and a higher cut if only to cover maintenance.

I would personally call their bluff and just spring it on them a few days before a gig that YOUR PA is unavailable as you've had a better offer and have hired it out elsewhere. Don't tell lies, get a mate to hire it for $1 for a night. They might just start to appreciate your efforts.

It works wonders, a previous drummer was always borrowing the/my PA for all his mates parties. One night I was using it with one of my other occasional bands so lent him the crappiest, oldest PA you have ever seen. He never asked again, I think he still has it but I don't want it back, it is that bad.
 
#38
I'm the owner of my 3 piece band's PA (mains, subs, amps, board, mics, snake, cables, misc etc..) but I don't expect an extra cut for owning it or for running it during shows. The fact is, I'd rather have the control over the PA and not have to worry about the other guys trying to second guess what I'm doing with the knobs and buttons. Let them play around with the drums and guitar and muck around with their own equipment and I'll pay attention to the bass and the vocals and PA stuff.

But I do expect that the other guys to help schlep all the gear. All three of us carry crap and set stuff up and tear stuff down equally until it's all done. This has been understood in my band since day one and we've never had a problem with this method for many years.


PS. I think having a "band fund" is, at best, a hazardous idea. IMO.
 
#40
jaywa said:
In my band nobody gets paid till the last piece of gear is in the trailer.

Keeps everyone focused at teardown and nobody has ever bailed once.
Click to expand...

My band is similar, except the singer owns most of the PA and takes his time loading out. I am ready to start loading with in 10 mins ( time to tear down and pack up my rig, bass and lights) and he is drinking, talking etc. I just want to go home especially fridays..you have been up like 21 hrs straight by gig end if you have a day job.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back