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passive basses

My active/passive Warwick is currently out of commission. I believe it's because I stepped on the cord, which (even though I looped it thru my strap) bent the output jack. It's one of those tubular side jacks that disconnects the battery... those are more delicate than the tried-and-true passive jacks.

But even though s*** like that can and does happen, I never worry about it because I bring 2 basses to every gig. The chances of lightning striking twice are practically nil.
 
I can never get an active bass to have that "grindy" punk tone that I love so very very much...

My Peavey-G can't do it... My Deluxe J couldnt do it...

so I traded the J in for a 73' Grabber that can grind like a $10 lap dance... and Now I have 2 out of production basses! w00t!
 
I play passive for the simple reason that nine years ago I broke my middle finger which now has seven plates and nine pines holding it together. I have had to relearn my tecnique from scratch. Passive basses alow me to dig into my stings harder thus increasing finger strength. And no I cant get into a pick....changes the tone even more for me. The other sticking point for me is when I run my P bass into my SVT Cl and my 8-10 i know everytime what tone I am getting. It may not be the cleanest or most refined but for me it works. I own a Stingray 5 and I am always goofing around with the knobs etc. It is a pain. Simple old p bass with Rotosounds and yea my hands get blisters sometimes but for me that is my tone.
 
nonsqtr said:
Yeah, certainly true. I think the poster was alluding to something specific though. All active preamps have low impedance outputs.

There's a different "loading" of the signal relative to the amp, with a high impedance pickup. And that "does" affect the tone, although in what way I'm not always sure. As you say, it would be highly dependent on the particular type of passive pickup, and the input impedance of the amp, and so on.


Really? I have active basses with passive bypass (with passive pickups) where the signal level is equal in either mode unless it's cut or boosted in active. That is hardly rare. Would that make it low impedance in passive mode too?


Tube amps usually have a high input impedance (on the order of 1 meg, sometimes more), while solid state amps are typically on the order of 50k or so. "In theory", if you have a 100 ohm source, that difference should be insignificant. But if you have a 100k source, it would probably be noticeable in terms of the sound. Just my guess about the poster's intended meaning though.

I just have problems with exception-laden edicts;)


Good point. You can always just turn down the volume control of an active instrument, if it's too hot. That should take care of the overdriving issue. I suspect that's operational though, in the heat of a gig one usually doesn't have time to find a specific setting on the volume control, one usually just cranks it all the way open, or to some intermediate level that's probably not very precisely defined. The volume control is probably one control that people "should" become very comfortable with. :)

That and everything else in their signal chain. I find most people are seriously lacking when it comes to understanding the fundamentals of amplification and guitars. While it's good to seek building blocks for a knowledge base, it some cases (like this) it amounts to saying X is true... except for when A,B,E,L,K,N and R are present.

Passive basses ______
Active basses _______

It would be nice if it were that easy to fill in the blanks but it's far from easy if one understands the instrument.

:D


I swear I'm not trying to be a **** about this but I can't count the number of times I've talked to someone who made a decision based on some *rules* they read somewhere that they took at face value. There are people who will tell you that passive basses sound smoother or have less highs or that active basses sound harsh or have a bigger output.

Sometimes they do... and sometimes they don't. That's my point.


S**t happens. You've never had an instrument flake on you in the middle of a gig? I have. It sucks. It's relatively rare, but it does happen. That would be one of the drawbacks of an active instrument, having the battery die on you in the middle of a gig. Some instruments are more graceful than others in that regard.

Sure I've had s*** happen. The difference with me is that I'm not going to let something as trivial as a potential battery failure keep me from using a particular piece of gear. It makes no sense to me and I honestly don't get it when others come to that conclusion. Batteries are cheap AND easy to check. If a battery fails in the middle of a gig it's typically because someone slacked off on their responsibility;). I can't see how that would be a drawback to the instrument... it's your bass... check the damn battery occassionally:D


By the way, I'm a huge fan of active instruments. In this particular thread though, I'd like to find out what people think are the "good" points of passive instruments. I have both, I just got a Mike Lull P5 (passive) that's a very nice instrument, it has a nice sound. Also the obligatory Jazz bass, which I'm supposedly bass-sitting for a guy I haven't seen in several years (so for all practical purposes, it's "mine"). Also have Roscoes, MTDs, F basses, Alembics, and the like, all active.

I just like stuff that sounds good and plays well. I use every combination of the types (which I guarantee most people don't make even the distinction)... different combinations of active or passive pickups and onboard preamps or no onboard preamp. We're dealing more with stereotypical basses in this thread and I should just leave it at that.

Anyway, keep it comin' folks, and thanks for the input!
 
wolfatthedoor said:
please pardon my ignorance in advance....

I didn't know that active basses have batteries? Batteries where? How do you change them? Could someone explain, I'm sorry, but I was about to buy my first active bass and now i'm just downright frightened :hiding:

The batterie is under the controll plate, most of the time they are 9 volts but there are other with 12 volts and so on.
 
Brad Johnson said:
I have active basses with passive bypass (with passive pickups) where the signal level is equal in either mode unless it's cut or boosted in active. That is hardly rare. Would that make it low impedance in passive mode too?


Here's the experiment: with your switchable active/passive bass, try it first with a tube amp, then with a solid state amp. My prediction would be, that the "delta" that you get when switching between active and passive, would be noticeably different with one type of amp versus the other. That piece has more to do with the way the amp responds to the bass. Wasn't trying to say that you get less volume with one or the other, just that the "impedance loading" is different, therefore one would expect some difference in the sound. It's a somewhat subtle concept, electronically speaking, but ask a studio engineer what this means and they'll be totally hip. It has to do with what the studio folks call "bridging mode", versus true impedance matching. The thing is, you can "hear" when a piece of gear is being used in bridging mode. And it's really hard to define exactly what the difference is, in terms of the spectrum or whatever, but it's definitely there. It's used a lot with low impedance mics, for example a Neve 1272 preamp in "low impedance mode" vs. "high impedance mode". The latter is usually bridged (or close to it, the load impedance is ten times or more the source impedance), and you can hear the difference in the sound. Sorry, didn't want to get too technical in this thread, just wanted to answer the question. :)
 
wolfatthedoor said:
I was about to buy my first active bass and now i'm just downright frightened

Batteries are ususally under the control plate on the rear, though some have neato little flip out battery compartments that makes changing them a snap.

Don't be put off or concerned by the fact that some basses use batteries; buy the instrument that you like to play, and that sounds best to you and accept that there is a small (really trivial) amount of extra maintenance in changing the battery occaisionally and unplugging the cord when your not actually playing it with an active. Electronics are usually very reliable, and provided the bass and electronics are from a reputable maufacturer it should really be no more of an issue than with any other instrument. Never has been with me.

On most basses the batteries last a long time.
 
Yep. Agreed. Batteries will generally last six months to a year, depending on how much you use the instrument. The battery powers the "active" electronics, which usually includes an active EQ. Changing batteries is usually very easy, at most you'd need a screwdriver. Some basses use one battery, some use two. In the vast majority of cases those would be 9v transistor radio batteries.

Here's a couple of things to watch out for. The most important one is, what happens when the battery dies. Or, more specifically, "how" it dies. Some basses are more graceful than others in that regard. Some will die "instantaneously", and in others you'll be able to hear it long before it happens (usually the volume will decrease and you'll hear some distortion that wasn't there before). The thing to do is, pay attention the first time this happens in your bass. Then, you'll know what to expect.

A good thing would be, a passive bypass. That way, if your battery ever dies unexpectedly, you can just switch over to passive mode and keep playing. If your bass doesn't have a passive bypass, they're usually very easy to install. You can do it yourself if you're handy with a soldering iron, or you can bring it to a tech and they'll probably do it for the minimum bench charge.

There's no reason to be overly concerned about the battery. My approach is this: I keep an extra new battery with me at all times, in the gig bag or in the instrument case. And, I keep a screwdriver too, if the bass needs one (for those that have the pop-up battery compartments, you don't have to worry about this). If I have a session or a super-important show, I'll always change the battery and put in a fresh one a few days before the gig. And, on general principles I rotate out the old batteries every three months or so (I play "a lot", and over the years I've found that three months is the beginning of my risk period for some of my active basses, so once every three months or so I spend an hour or so and change the batteries in "all" my basses, that way they're always ready to play on demand).

But, this thread is about PASSIVE basses. :) Just kidding, you can talk about whatever you want. So far, you guys are compiling a great list of passive bass benefits. Anything else we haven't thought of yet, in terms of why people go passive?
 
nonsqtr said:
Here's the experiment: with your switchable active/passive bass, try it first with a tube amp, then with a solid state amp. My prediction would be, that the "delta" that you get when switching between active and passive, would be noticeably different with one type of amp versus the other. That piece has more to do with the way the amp responds to the bass. Wasn't trying to say that you get less volume with one or the other, just that the "impedance loading" is different, therefore one would expect some difference in the sound. It's a somewhat subtle concept, electronically speaking, but ask a studio engineer what this means and they'll be totally hip. It has to do with what the studio folks call "bridging mode", versus true impedance matching. The thing is, you can "hear" when a piece of gear is being used in bridging mode. And it's really hard to define exactly what the difference is, in terms of the spectrum or whatever, but it's definitely there. It's used a lot with low impedance mics, for example a Neve 1272 preamp in "low impedance mode" vs. "high impedance mode". The latter is usually bridged (or close to it, the load impedance is ten times or more the source impedance), and you can hear the difference in the sound. Sorry, didn't want to get too technical in this thread, just wanted to answer the question. :)


Not too technical. I don't need to try this experiment... I've been doing it for decades;)

IME experience when I've used my active basses with the gain unboosted through tube amps they sound no different than in passive mode. AFAIK when they're run passive they're passive... correct me if I'm wrong.

The first active bass I owned, a 78 Tobias with a JHD Audio one band parametric EQ with Q switch and Bartolini soapbars. Ran it through Ampeg (SVT and several B-15s), Sunn and a few other tube amps. When I had a problem with the Bart preamp in my 84 Tobias I didn't bother fixing it for about a year and ran it in passive mode the entire time.

Are you saying that an amp "has to" respond differently to an active bass in passive mode than a passive only? I'll admit I don't get that and it doesn't mirror my experience. Why would a bass with passive pickups in bypass mode necessarily be different than a bass with the same pickups without the preamp (that was bypassed)?

I do have active basses with hotter outputs, I also have active basses with active pickups. That's what keeps me from stating a simple rule.
 
nonsqtr said:
Yep. Agreed. Batteries will generally last six months to a year, depending on how much you use the instrument. The battery powers the "active" electronics, which usually includes an active EQ. Changing batteries is usually very easy, at most you'd need a screwdriver. Some basses use one battery, some use two. In the vast majority of cases those would be 9v transistor radio batteries.

Here's a couple of things to watch out for. The most important one is, what happens when the battery dies. Or, more specifically, "how" it dies. Some basses are more graceful than others in that regard. Some will die "instantaneously", and in others you'll be able to hear it long before it happens (usually the volume will decrease and you'll hear some distortion that wasn't there before). The thing to do is, pay attention the first time this happens in your bass. Then, you'll know what to expect.

A good thing would be, a passive bypass. That way, if your battery ever dies unexpectedly, you can just switch over to passive mode and keep playing. If your bass doesn't have a passive bypass, they're usually very easy to install. You can do it yourself if you're handy with a soldering iron, or you can bring it to a tech and they'll probably do it for the minimum bench charge.

There's no reason to be overly concerned about the battery. My approach is this: I keep an extra new battery with me at all times, in the gig bag or in the instrument case. And, I keep a screwdriver too, if the bass needs one (for those that have the pop-up battery compartments, you don't have to worry about this). If I have a session or a super-important show, I'll always change the battery and put in a fresh one a few days before the gig. And, on general principles I rotate out the old batteries every three months or so (I play "a lot", and over the years I've found that three months is the beginning of my risk period for some of my active basses, so once every three months or so I spend an hour or so and change the batteries in "all" my basses, that way they're always ready to play on demand).

But, this thread is about PASSIVE basses. :) Just kidding, you can talk about whatever you want. So far, you guys are compiling a great list of passive bass benefits. Anything else we haven't thought of yet, in terms of why people go passive?

It's true that the thread is about passive basses. Without something to compare them to...

no batteries would be no more of a benefit than anything else they "don't" have... like thermodynamically coupled tweeters.

Or party dresses.
;)
 
Mike Money said:
I can never get an active bass to have that "grindy" punk tone that I love so very very much...

My Peavey-G can't do it... My Deluxe J couldnt do it...

so I traded the J in for a 73' Grabber that can grind like a $10 lap dance... and Now I have 2 out of production basses! w00t!

Funny you should mention that. A guy was checking out two used G basses at a local store a couple of days ago. One with flatwounds, one with fairly dead rounds. He was getting a seriously grindy tone out of both, leaning more towards a P bass with the flats.
 
Billy Sheehan seems to choose passive more for a psychological reason-
he says in his videos that with an active bass he was always unsure if any change in the sound from how it was before was down to the battery dying, so he sticks to passive basses to remove that variable.

I like having the minimum of controls on my basses, to avoid huge tone changes if they get knocked during a gig by the singer crashing into or snagging his mic cable on the bass:D

my favourite setup is on my Warmoth homemade P- 5pos rotary switch for pickup panning, and vol+tone controls bypassed straight to the jack.