Patented Tube Screamer + RAT pedal

[jwr]

Also, for what it's worth, I looked into patenting a circuit last year. It's not easy at all.

 

[boomertech]

I'm curious - how would a pedal like the Plimsoul perform in low frequencies (if used with a bass)?

A Tube Screamer into a RAT can sound great. IMO, that combo works great together.

-Frank

 

[boomertech]

Do you have a number for the redeemer patent, or a search string? I love the redeemer and would like to see how they do it

This is the application number US20080068049. I remember them celebrating that they were awarded the patent a few years ago.

-Frank

 

[boomertech]

Good luck suing all the people who clones those pedals! hahahaha! There's no way in hell he'd be able to muscle his way into winning. All you'd have to do is change the name of your pedals to not reflect these circuits. He'd have to have your schematics and prove they are clones to have any kind of case. It's just not likely. It would literally cost them more money to fight people than it'd be worth. Silly bastards.

For the majority of small builders, all it would take is a C/D letter from his lawyers to shut them down. A lot of builders make so little profit to even consider going to court over a pedal clone or clone variant.

-Frank

 

[boomertech]

Also, for what it's worth, I looked into patenting a circuit last year. It's not easy at all.

I too have looked into a patent. For what I wanted to do would have cost a lot of money. But, if all he is doing is using the application process to protect his Plimsoul from being cloned for a few years, then that's kind of smart to do. To put together an app that he knows should fail may cost only a few grand.

Plus, every music site will have "patent pending" in the ad copy.... to the unsuspecting it looks like he invented something new. Kind of another smart move.

I don't think that the US patent office should be used as a temporary protection against cloning or a way to dress up your ad copy, but if there is a way to abuse something, someone will abuse it.

-Frank

 

[boomertech]

There was a distortion pedal a few years ago that had a "patent pending" in their ad copy. I looked up the app number and it was a Tube Screamer variant using PIN diodes. The patent wasn't awarded and they had to stop claiming "patent pending".

-Frank

 

[nshuman]

For the majority of small builders, all it would take is a C/D letter from his lawyers to shut them down. A lot of builders make so little profit to even consider going to court over a pedal clone or clone variant.

-Frank

Pretty much. I think consumers should show their support for more ethical builders with their wallets in situations like these.

 

[Fabio_MIJ]

These are highly versatile and customizable circuits, it suffices to change a series of capacitors/resistances to change dramatically the sound of the pedal and generate a new variant (very prone to DIY).
So how far the patent would affect the clones?
It is like putting a patent on the strat guitar, then making a similar one with the headstock changed...
In my opinion, only the original copy of the circuit, including the original components, should be subject to a patent as a part of the stompboxes history. But any declination of the classical version should be free from it.

 

[kleinenenten]

These are highly versatile and customizable circuits, it suffices to change a series of capacitors/resistances to change dramatically the sound of the pedal and generate a new variant (very prone to DIY).
So how far the patent would affect the clones?
It is like putting a patent on the strat guitar, then making a similar one with the headstock changed...
In my opinion, only the original copy of the circuit, including the original components, should be subject to a patent as a part of the stompboxes history. But any declination of the classical version should be free from it.

I was starting to wonder that too. Like how many clones of a specific muff there are. Each one is different, but mostly the same, right?

 

[nshuman]

These are highly versatile and customizable circuits, it suffices to change a series of capacitors/resistances to change dramatically the sound of the pedal and generate a new variant (very prone to DIY).
So how far the patent would affect the clones?
It is like putting a patent on the strat guitar, then making a similar one with the headstock changed...
In my opinion, only the original copy of the circuit, including the original components, should be subject to a patent as a part of the stompboxes history. But any declination of the classical version should be free from it.

Unfortunately, one does not need to be in the right in the US to launch a legal attack on someone. My company has been sued in the US and we had to go to court and get an EASY win, but we still had to do it. Most small builders will not do this and simply give up. You are also not guaranteed damages if a frivolous lawsuit is launched at you. The US does not afford the same protections against frivolous lawsuits as other countries. Add to that that IP lawsuits are often just filed in districts where judgements are usually more favourable for the plaintiffs for various reasons.

This goes back to what I have always advocated. There are so many effects builders. Tons of them are ethical, tones of them are not, whether they rip off other designs without giving the proper credit or try to appropriate other designs. People should use their purchasing power to not encourage these types of builders. No matter how much one of their pedals may entice you.

 

[NKBassman]

The Fulltone OCD is to this day the worst sounding pedal I have ever owned. Glad I returned it, and glad I don't own any of Fulltones's other crappy pedals.

I really liked the Fuzzrocious Demon, which is essentially a tweaked OCD circuit.

I was under the impression that only circuit layouts were patent-able, not necessarily the conceptual circuit itself. That could be way off base, though.

 

[BawanaRik]

I'd be a huge fan of this type of pedal. It sucks that its being kept off the market due to silliness.
I appreciate the need to protect your designs but jeez man when a bunch of your products are clones of other peoples stuff sitting on a design you aren't currently selling seems petty

Or you can buy a DIY and have the same thing

 

[avvie]

I went through the patent process and it was an eye-opening experience, and not in a good way. Eventually I was offered a patent on a "lacerating blade"...presumably, every time you cut something with a knife you'd owe me money. The entire story points out so many things wrong with the USPATMO that it seems like time to abolish it entirely.

 

[Fabio_MIJ]

I was starting to wonder that too. Like how many clones of a specific muff there are. Each one is different, but mostly the same, right?

Yes, it is like many classic gear, there are tweaked versions that sounds a bit different or more hi-fi, but the type of sound is essentially the same.
For example, I use D&S distortion pedal from "black cat pedals", which is boutique version of a Muff modification, introduced by Maxon. It is more versatile than the classical Muff, but it is not the vintage original sound.

 

[boomertech]

Unfortunately, one does not need to be in the right in the US to launch a legal attack on someone. My company has been sued in the US and we had to go to court and get an EASY win, but we still had to do it. Most small builders will not do this and simply give up. You are also not guaranteed damages if a frivolous lawsuit is launched at you. The US does not afford the same protections against frivolous lawsuits as other countries. Add to that that IP lawsuits are often just filed in districts where judgements are usually more favourable for the plaintiffs for various reasons.

This goes back to what I have always advocated. There are so many effects builders. Tons of them are ethical, tones of them are not, whether they rip off other designs without giving the proper credit or try to appropriate other designs. People should use their purchasing power to not encourage these types of builders. No matter how much one of their pedals may entice you.

Absolutely correct! I remember a cell phone manufacturer taking a competitor to court over using rounded corners on their phone. Crazy poopie.

-Frank

 

[boomertech]

He "invented" the MXR Distortion+, Univibe, DOD 250, Voodoo Drive, the concept of Tape Echo/Delay, the Octavia, the Wah, etc...

Did he really make those claims?

-Frank

 

[nshuman]

Did he really make those claims?

-Frank

Well, probably not all those claims, but if you read between the lines on his site, it sure sounds that way

 

[BogeyBass]

It's similar to a screamer into
a rat. and looks about the same as my designs and few hundred other guys that play around with basic clipping circuits.
even if he did get awarded the patent he can't sue anybody building rat or screamer clones
So who cares.

And when I sold a few of my designs it seemed dumb to patent anything cause the schematic then becomes public. And if you have spent hours of your time and thousands of dollars to produce it. I don't see the issue in getting a patent.

Cause yes there is similarities of a rat and screamer but there is additional features added which I think are actually pretty smart and the issue is online diy pedal kits which copy things exactly.

And yes after thousands of dollars and neck aches designing something. " distortion scientists" lol are very protective of the circuits
they pproduce. And rather offended if the designs are stolen.

I wasn't to protective of my clipping circuits and mumbo jumbo that the diy puts out as super secret magic tricks.

more protective of my post filtering and active eq and simply black blobbed the boards So little copy cat snoops don't get a free ride and waste a year of my time.

likewise I'm sure full tone is protecting his pride and money cause copy cat diy kits do take alot of money out of companies pockets.

And if I was robbing you on the streets. stolen money is stolen money. nobody likes that. It's not about trying to steal or sue existing designs it's about not letting people
steal your new ddesigns.

And the guy has invented some rather classic circuits and has lost millions to copy cat rip offs. or to the company's that own his designs
I'm sure you all understand if you put yourself in the others persons shoes instead of overreacting to assumptions that every screamer clone guy is gonna get sued lol
he's selling pedals not lawsuits

 

[hintz]

I really liked the Fuzzrocious Demon, which is essentially a tweaked OCD circuit.

I was under the impression that only circuit layouts were patent-able, not necessarily the conceptual circuit itself. That could be way off base, though.

I had the V3 OCD(what the demon was based on) and it sounded fantastic on bass, especially in LP.mode!!

Despite all of the terrible things I've read about Mike Fuller, I really enjoyed the Bassdrive and the OCD!! And yes, I've read about all the circuits he's copied and think it beyond hypocritical for him to threaten legal action against others when he copies himself!! I've never hear of Electro-Harmonix suing anyone for the Muff clones, and yet they're not losing any sales despite people loving the clones better than the current Muff's(granted they are much more established brand)... The whole thing is silly!!

Anyways I really did enjoy both Fulltones I had, the OCD reminded me of the Rat only less harsh(not sure what its based on) and I love the TS sound so I really dug the Bassdrive(the boost channel was kinda useless for me)....i have no answer other than maybe ProCo and Ibanez should sue Mike Fuller and give him a taste of his own medicine??(in a perfect world, I'm sure he isn't even on their radar)

 

[JimmyM]

I have no dog in the hunt, and I own no Fulltone pedals, but I have to agree that this is a rather wack move.