Double Bass Peacock Blows off Costello...

[Uncletoad]

14 pages with no blood running on the floor? Pretty good, I'd say.



I'm looking for 20. Have we ever done 20?

Not unless it's about strings.

I say onward to 20.

Lets bash them all around some more.

Who's up next?


Whoo Hooo 14!!!!

 

[Marc Piane]

14!!!!!!!

Hooray!!!!

Spirocores suck...

Wait a minute, that's what I have on one of my basses... darn

Obligatos suck...

Wait a minute, that's what I have on my other bass... darn

My intonation sucks...

Wait a minute, nobody will defend me, especially me... darn

GK 150MBs suck...

Wait a minute, that's what I use... darn



I guess more coffee is in order.

 

[jallenbass]

Did that include providing hotel accomodations and food? What about transportation to and from the airport?
And what about airfare for that matter?

I don't remember the details. I was a little taken aback that I was talking to RB.

 

[MingusAmongUs]

Invalid Link Removed

 

[musicman5string]

.

 

[TroyK]

Ah, once again, my since of sarcasim doesn't always present itself as such. My contention all along has been that we know JACK **** about what actually went on and why and we're all (myself included) petty, sniveling little old ladies in line at the check stand besmurching the reputations of a host of actual human beings EVERYONE OF WHICH deserves our respect.

See, aren't I more fun when I'm obtuse?

 

[Uncletoad]

Ah, once again, my since of sarcasim doesn't always present itself as such. My contention all along has been that we know JACK **** about what actually went on and why and we're all (myself included) petty, sniveling little old ladies in line at the check stand besmurching the reputations of a host of actual human beings EVERYONE OF WHICH deserves our respect.

See, aren't I more fun when I'm obtuse?

Dude.

I'm totally limp now.

 

[damonsmith]

Very unlikely.

And they aren't equally billed. It's Keith Jarrett and two guys he plays with a lot. If Keith weren't in it, they be charging $1,500-2,000 per gig for out of town gigs and driving there in a minivan. If Gary wasn't in the band, musicians would notice but just about no one else would. Do you really think they are splitting the take equally? Seriously. Even Jack is expendable. One of the albums released has Paul Motian playing drums. Keith is the draw and unless his agent/manager is an idiot, Keith gets the big money. That's way it works.

Personally, I really wish it were otherwise but that's the reality of being a jazz musician. Even an important, innovative one.

mark

Motion is the only variation in personel, Keith originaly wanted Motion instead but he said no. Even that cd has all three names on it. Itunes might say Jarret trio but all the cds have all three names or standards trio.

It normally depends on the band and side men. Those two are not getting any less than a major festival would pay them as a leader, since they can both get gigs that way.

 

[Marc Piane]

The King of Poo!!!

Try the Veal and remember to tip your waitress.



Troy, you are right on man. That's why I was trying to direct the discussion the the questions raised. Page 9 Post #167.


What is professionalism?

Where do we (each) draw the line when the expectations at a gig get changed?

Is our perception of a certain artist changed when we know a bit more about his attitude and personality?

Are there 'levels' of art?

Obviously failed miserably.

 

[damonsmith]

"What is professionalism?"

- There are a lot of elements. Show up on time, do what you agreed to ect. and the other side is standards of quality. Some restaraunts have a dress code, and won't serve certain things.
Some musicians have specific parameters they have held to.
Another thing is, you can look at my bio see I have worked with a fair amount of names, mostly in free jazz, but folks who have made their name. I have also done organizing for a lot more players than I played with. The one thing that seems to get to name players is just not respecting or being aware of their work.
Most artists have ideologies, whether or not you guys believe or respect that, it is true. So you can't put together a concert with Anthony Braxton's compositions with an improvisor, say Derek Bailey when he was alive, who is ideologically opposed to composition.
When I organize concerts go over all the details, venue, other musicians, what they do, what they don't do, amplifacation, etc. Very often these conditions are much more important than the fee.

Professionalism in this case would be to have an understanding of Peacock's artisic parameters before hiring him.

"Where do we (each) draw the line when the expectations at a gig get changed?"

-Just personally I won't play current pop music ever, or any written material without prior negotiation, with too loud a drummer, or with someone who is not interacting. I also won't rehearse unless there is a fee for it or it is with friends or a master player.
In general I like to play in places where the audience sits and listens and there is no noise made by anyone but the musicians. I much prefer that to a good fee, or big audience. Since I tend to get it, I see the other situations as a fun challenge once and while.

"Is our perception of a certain artist changed when we know a bit more about his attitude and personality?"

-I think it depends on the next question. If I like their work generally no. Braxton got in a fight with Peter Kowald because Braxton loved Wagner, Kowald said he shouldn't since Wagner was Facist, Braxton said the history of music is not the history of nice guys.
That is true, often a being great player means a lot of time spent alone in a room with an instrument, there are many things that can drive a person to that, not all of them positive.
One thing I love about jazz and improvised music is you can work with really quirky personalities, since you just meet at the gig and part ways after. Of course the hang is nice, but not always nesssary for making good music.

"Are there 'levels' of art?"

Yes, but they are personal, and based on each persons core values.
Clearly a lot of people hold EC high regard, personally I find him dull and bland, but not offensive. I respect hard work, commitment to music for music sake and innovation. Others have different parameters altogether.

 

[Damon Rondeau]

Okay, now I'm nitpicking and going for 20 pages. Besides, Damon you're asking for it with your (maturely and cogently and sensibly and even-sometimes-with-humour argued) elitist position. Here goes: have you looked up the definition of "parameter"? It doesn't mean boundary (that's perimeter) and it doesn't mean "characteristic of". You keep talking about Gary Peacock's "parameters" and I keep thinking of sliders and knobs somewhere on The Great Artist's corpus....

If we're gonna have elitism in music, let's have it in language, too.

 

[MingusAmongUs]

"Is our perception of a certain artist changed when we know a bit more about his attitude and personality?"

-I think it depends on the next question. If I like their work generally no. Braxton got in a fight with Peter Kowald because Braxton loved Wagner, Kowald said he shouldn't since Wagner was Facist, Braxton said the history of music is not the history of nice guys.
That is true, often a being great player means a lot of time spent alone in a room with an instrument, there are many things that can drive a person to that, not all of them positive.
One thing I love about jazz and improvised music is you can work with really quirky personalities, since you just meet at the gig and part ways after. Of course the hang is nice, but not always nesssary for making good music.

Seems to me you betray your own double standards here. And based on all your posts I expect you'll be the first to admit it (that's admirable). But just by saying that if you like the artist's work, you don't judge their character, but if their work doesn't do anything for you, then you are free to judge them by their actions and personality. You made that abundantly clear by expressing your final opinion of EC after hearing about the "n-word" gaffe. Not exactly fair, but to each his own.

 

[damonsmith]

Okay, now I'm nitpicking and going for 20 pages. Besides, Damon you're asking for it with your (maturely and cogently and sensibly and even-sometimes-with-humour argued) elitist position. Here goes: have you looked up the definition of "parameter"? It doesn't mean boundary (that's perimeter) and it doesn't mean "characteristic of". You keep talking about Gary Peacock's "parameters" and I keep thinking of sliders and knobs somewhere on The Great Artist's corpus....

If we're gonna have elitism in music, let's have it in language, too.

from wikipedia: "In mathematics, statistics, and the mathematical sciences, parameters (L: auxiliary measure) are quantities that define certain relatively constant characteristics of systems or functions. Often represented by ? in general form, other symbols carry standard, specific meanings. When evaluating the function over a domain or determining the response of the system over a period of time, the independent variables are varied, while the parameters are held constant."

To answer your question, no I had not looked it up, I have just heard it used in a lot of contexts and it turned out to be exactly what I meant.

 

[damonsmith]

Seems to me you betray your own double standards here. And based on all your posts I expect you'll be the first to admit it (that's admirable). But just by saying that if you like the artist's work, you don't judge their character, but if their work doesn't do anything for you, then you are free to judge them by their actions and personality. You made that abundantly clear by expressing your final opinion of EC after hearing about the "n-word" gaffe. Not exactly fair, but to each his own.

I quailified it with if I liked the work before, so since I was unmoved by his work before that, it did not not hold up for me.
I had a good friend who was a really really terrible player, he and I and a couple other musicians work part-time for the same guy, he (the bad player) told on the rest of us for not doing exactly what we supposed to do, but still got our work done anyway and we were fired, so I never dealt with him again. I'd have forgiven a great player.

 

[Marc Piane]

I quailified it with if I liked the work before, so since I was unmoved by his work before that, it did not not hold up for me.
I had a good friend who was a really really terrible player, he and i and a couple other musicians work part-time for the same guy, he told on us for not doing exactly what we supposed to do and we were fired, so I never dealt with him agian. I'd have forgiven a great player.

huh?

 

[musicman5string]

.

 

[Marc Piane]

I'd stop posting but I'd genuinely like to understand.

Besides. 20 is a great goal!!!

 

[Damon Rondeau]

Wiki what?

To simplify a bit, but not overmuch, a parameter is simply a variable aspect of a population, a system, an equation, etc. For example, "average annual income" is one of many parameters describing bass players. Others might be "physical mass", "degree of hairiness", "artistic integrity", "tolerance for free jazz hardliners", etc.

Nitpicky for sure, but since I'm certain you must get a lot of reactionary guff (20 pages worth??? Let's see...) in response to your open and well-thought-out elitism I thought you could use the feedback to make a marginal improvement in your game. Your intonation's definitely off with that word the other way. Just refer to Gary's values, not his parameters.

Keep fighting off the vulgarians! Find more ways to get in little, belittling digs like that root-five thing you did about a zillion posts ago. Those are good.

 

[Uncletoad]

This thread=

Ok this is hysterical.

It's like some perverted bestial thing if you look at it right.

 

[TroyK]

Ok this is hysterical.

It's like some perverted bestial thing if you look at it right.

No, potty mouth. It's just a cartoon suggesting that expression. You know; "How much extra for a horse to get the happy ending?"