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Double Bass Peacock Blows off Costello...

#221
Man, this thread went waaaay out of control!

Is there any record of GP's reasoning on this matter?

Maybe he knew about the EC's racially charged comments and refused to play with him? That I can respect.

"I don't play back up to no rock singer" is just a crock!

Not wanting to play with someone who has made racist comments has real meaning. Not wanting to play with a pop singer is a JOKE!

It's just music people.
 
#222
My summation on the Iridium incident:

Was GP hired to play that night? yes or no
Did he fulfill his contractual obligation? yes or no

That would be a yes and a no.

Any way you cut it, he was unprofessional. End of story. If you choose to be a professional musician, there is a business component. If you are hired to do a job, you do it. You don't leave in the middle because your sensitive artistic sensabilities have been offended or in this case, MIGHT be offended. If it were my gig and someone did that to me, not only would I never hire them again (and I don't care WHO they are), I'd go to pains to influence anyone that I know never to hire them either.

If you don't want to play as a professional, then get a job flipping burgers and play for fun and then you can be as picky about what gigs you take as you want. But if you are hired, you take your obligations seriously. GP didn't. Using "but he's an artist" is a cop out not a defense. It's the worst sort of rationalization.

Now I have every Jarrett trio CD and all of Gary's solo CDs. I have his work with Bill Evans and a bunch of other albums that he is on (mostly ECM, I think). I have his video. I like Gary Peacock. He is a great bassist and if he is on an album, I'm likely to get it just because he's on it. He has intonation problems that pop up here and there as we all do. I do have a big problem with Tales of Another because, for whatever reason-he couldn't hear very well or he had a problem with his bass, he plays HORRIBLY, PAINFULLY, AMATEURISHLY out of tune through a great deal of it. And because it is his album, they mixed it with the bass way out front leaving all those intonation problems hanging out there like a zit on the end of his nose. I would be horrendously embarrassed to have that album released. And that's not a potshot-that's an observation. If you in any way doubt me, I'd strongly suggest wasting $11.95 by buying and listening to it for yourself.

mark
 
#225
My summation on the Iridium incident:

Was GP hired to play that night? yes or no
Did he fulfill his contractual obligation? yes or no

That would be a yes and a yes.

GP is not a "working bass player", and has not been longer than most of us have been playing.
Just judging from his discography it appears he looks for contexts to improvise in that are setting he clearly likes.
Respect it or not, there are things musicians who take that road will and won't do - at the expense of work.
He may not get recognized on Uncle Toad's main drag, but he is certainly at the level of having a rider.

That is the difference in approach.
 
#228
damonsmith said:
My summation on the Iridium incident:

Was GP hired to play that night? yes or no
Did he fulfill his contractual obligation? yes or no

That would be a yes and a yes.

GP is not "working bass player", it has been longer than most of us have been playing since he was one.
Just judging from his discography it appears he looks for contexts to improvise in that are setting he clearly likes.
Respect it or not, there are things musicians who take that road will and won't do - at the expense of work.

That is the difference in approach.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand the concept of professional obligation. It wasn't his gig. He was hired to play bass. He was unambiguously a "working bass player" that night. He left before it was done. As great as he is and, I don't even in the slightest dispute that he is, he left before the gig was completed. THAT is unprofessional. Flowery sentiments about artistic sensibility really don't hold. He bolted, flew the coop, left the other guys holding the bag, etc. He was hired to do a job and he didn't do it. There is nothing ambiguous about it.

If it were HIS gig, I might cut him some slack but probably not because he screwed the club that hired him. If it were his gig and he also owned the club, THEN he can be a diva and cry all he wants to.

It would be great if we lived in a country where serious musical achievement were honored and appropriately compensated. We don't. We live in a world where being the world's greatest jazz bassist is held in roughly the same esteem by the American public as the world's hot dog eating champion. Maybe less even. If you want to eat, you gotta work. If you work, you gotta be professional or you won't work. Gary might be able to get away with it because of who he is and Jarrett will always hire him but does anyone here think Lee Konitz is ever going to hire him again? Does anyone think the Iridium is going to let him inside their club again? I'd be surprised if either happened.

mark
 
#229
Marcus Johnson said:
Damon... I'm tryin', buddy, and I agree with part of what you are saying. But that one I just don't get. :confused:
Click to expand...

Therein lies the problem in this discussion. He is not a guy you can hire to play root fives and tell what to do.
You don't call him and offer a fee for project, you call ask what would it take for him to do it.
Artists at that level have lists of conditions that have to be met before they will perform, from what floor their hotel can be on to only green M & Ms.
He is not making as much as EC. but I know the fee the Standards trio got last time they were out here, and it was enough to buy a small house in some parts of this country.
 
#230
calivox said:
I don't think you understand the concept of professional obligation. It wasn't his gig. He was hired to play bass. He was unambiguously a "working bass player" that night. He left before it was done. As great as he is and, I don't even in the slightest dispute that he is, he left before the gig was completed. THAT is unprofessional. Flowery sentiments about artistic sensibility really don't hold. He bolted, flew the coop, left the other guys holding the bag, etc. He was hired to do a job and he didn't do it. There is nothing ambiguous about it.
Click to expand...

The concept you don't get was he was hired to be Gary Peacock - you don't pay that much for a working bass player. and HE played the whole gig, Costello left.
You can commision a painting from any number of famous painters and no matter how many millions you pay them, they are not going to paint your bathroom, even if it is your birthday, even if it is "Just painting" and you "hired them to paint for you".
 
#231
I was planning to stay out of this thread...

oh well...

Damon, I think the trouble I am having is that we are all human, we all live by the same basic rules (emotion, aging, gravity, taxes). Nobody is exempt from this. Everbody's poop stinks.

I have trouble understanding putting someone on such a high pedistal that they don't have to live by the rules that make a community (or in the case of music "a communal experience") function.
 
#232
damonsmith said:
The concept you don't get was he hired to be Gary Peacock - you don't pay that much for a working bass player. and HE played the whole gig, Costello left.
You can commision a painting from any number of famous painters and no matter how many millions you pay them, they are not going to paint your bathroom, even if it is your birthday, even if it is "Just painting" and you "hired them to paint for you".
Click to expand...
I really do get this. There are so few musicians who get to live this way and still have the phone ring. I'm happy for him that he has reached that spot. In a perfect world all dedicated studied musicians should have that opportunity. It's where true growth and movement of the chains happens.

Though I'm also glad I'm not there. I love to play music and will pretty much do anything to have the opportunity to do so. I don't have anywhere near the study or dedication to practice and development he has, and wish I'd have the discipline to gather that understanding and have that experience. I don't, and never will. So I take what I can get. Paper coverall fingerpainted costumes playing bad 70's covers for wedding bliss.

I'm slogging around on other end of the food chain and pretty happy in my own pile of muck.

I'm still not sure where the line is and who's on what side. Peacock I guess. How bout Ron Carter?, John Pattituci? McBride? where do they all fall in this continuum? When have you paid enough dues to have green M&M's and the phone still rings?
 
#234
damonsmith said:
The concept you don't get was he hired to be Gary Peacock - you don't pay that much for a working bass player. and HE played the whole gig, Costello left.
You can commision a painting from any number of famous painters and no matter how many millions you pay them, they are not going to paint your bathroom, even if it is your birthday, even if it is "Just painting" and you "hired them to paint for you".
Click to expand...

Your extremely tortured painting metaphor aside, you are right about playing the whole gig. I had that wrong which significantly impacts my earlier statements. Apparently, Peacock's manager had been telling the powers that be all week that GP wasn't going to play with Costello. The Iridium management likely knew all along that there was a potential problem but went ahead anyway assuming that GP would back down if faced with it at the gig. They clearly thought they'd sell the place out with a pop superstar making an appearance--even if he was only going to do a very short birthday tribute. They also apparently didn't make it clear in their advertising that EC was only going to only do two short songs and present a cake to Lee Konitz. While I understand their desire to make as much money as possible (running a jazz club in Midtown Manhatten has got to be a hand to mouth existence), they clearly screwed the pooch on this one. They knew all along that there was a potential problem and went ahead anyway hoping for the big score. When it blew up in their faces, they spun it so that Peacock was the bad guy when, in fact, he was upfront about it all along.

Amazing what a little research will reveal...

Please ignore my earlier comments.

mark
 
#235
calivox said:
Your extremely tortured painting metaphor aside, you are right about playing the whole gig. I had that wrong which significantly impacts my earlier statements. Apparently, Peacock's manager had been telling the powers that be all week that GP wasn't going to play with Costello. The Iridium management likely knew all along that there was a potential problem but went ahead anyway assuming that GP would back down if faced with it at the gig. They clearly thought they'd sell the place out with a pop superstar making an appearance--even if he was only going to do a very short birthday tribute. They also apparently didn't make it clear in their advertising that EC was only going to only do two short songs and present a cake to Lee Konitz. While I understand their desire to make as much money as possible (running a jazz club in Midtown Manhatten has got to be a hand to mouth existence), they clearly screwed the pooch on this one. They knew all along that there was a potential problem and went ahead anyway hoping for the big score. When it blew up in their faces, they spun it so that Peacock was the bad guy when, in fact, he was upfront about it all along.

Amazing what a little research will reveal...

Please ignore my earlier comments.

mark
Click to expand...
Well there you go then.

The 'Cock is vindicated.

...what else can we bitch about, this is getting fun again.
 
#236
Marcus Johnson said:
That must have made for some interesting conversation when he was married to his popstar wife Annette.
Click to expand...

I am not sure she was when they were married, plus I'd hardly call her a pop star. At any rate she is great, her tunes are amazing. There is a beautiful trio with Franz Koglmann, Bley and Peacock on Hat Art doing all her music.

Anyway, you "working" guys are the ones down his decision and want to talk about professionalism and the work place - ever heard of senoirity?
You, know you get to a certain place and you just don't have to do certain things.
Steve Jobs doesn't have to take out the trash, GP doesn't have to play with EC, when EC needs a sax solo he shells out for Lee Konitz.
It is not a pedestal, it is the fact that they paid whatever dues it takes to get there, now they do what they want.
 
#237
calivox said:
Even Guamba although it has been a long time since I've listened to it. Maybe I'll get it out of the archives and listen to it tomorrow.

mark
Click to expand...

I have it on LP, along with "Tales of another". Keep in mind those are early tranfers to cd and those normally sound bad.
"Tales of Another" has big, warm sound on my turntable, maybe the intonation is not flawless, but it is hardly unlistenable.
 
#239
fingers said:
Not sure how that is not a pedestal... but so be it.
Click to expand...

So you have been playing a while, right? You are not a beginner, that is for sure. You have no artistic demands?
No parameters for working conditions?
Even when I worked at gas stations the guy who'd been there the longest didn't have to clean the bathrooms anymore.
Call it what you want it - it is how the world works. Call me in 30 years and tell me how you are still willing to do anything asked of you on any gig and work under any conditions!
 

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