Not pretending to be an expert, but I recall reading it was about that.
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Peavey 2x15 replacement speaker question
- Thread starter eggcident
- Start date
Not that it's all that pertinent, but the acoustic watt is the SI unit for sound power. (Not to be confused with sound pressure.)
It's what I (tongue in cheek) tend to call unspecified power ratings. [company name] Watts.
Many companies are very good about noting if the power measurements are in RMS (This in my opinion should be listed and measured accurately by all manufacturers), or if they are talking about Music Power, or Peak Power.
If power is specified and includes a qualifier, especially if it's RMS, those measurements at least have a chance of being numbers that can be be measured and verified independently. Peak and music can be estimated or derived from RMS, but that figure needs to be right, for the others to even be in the ballpark.
There are many ways to measure power. There are also ways to estimate power in other terms from those measurements. Lacking any qualifiers for power specifications, is in my opinion suspicious. You have no way to verify the power claims made by some manufacturers if they won't say that they are actually measuring, calculating or just guessing.
In the previous posts someone said [company name]'s amp is "400w" (no qualifier) and someone else said it's output is 200 Watts. Not only was the the qualifier of RMS included, but so was the load (4 Ohms). So we have a disagreement. Which one do you trust? They could both be correct as in 200 Watts RMS might correlate to 400 Watts of Music Power. But how do we know if someone leaves out that information.
There is a lot of misinformation about amp power. The only prevention from getting caught up in it is to be aware that there are different ways that one can refer to power, and be suspicious if the type of power is not specified. If a company is specific about it's specifications, I tend to trust them more than those who are not as forthcoming. I think more companies are understanding that we want the truth about their products. It is important for us to hold those who aren't, accountable.
While I did use [company name] Watts, in my reply, that information was posted by a TB member, not by the company itself. I should have called it [TB name] Watts.
I found this from a copy of an Acoustic 370 manual. It does provide a lot of detailed information about power specs.
Technical Specifications - Acoustic 370 Instruction Manual [Page 4]
Bottom line, we tend to focus on power, but in doing so we my dismiss many other important factors. If we at least understand that power can be represented in many different ways, we can better protect ourselves from any potential misinformation.
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I replaced the drivers in my friend's Peavey 215 a few years ago. It sounds excellent. But it was not a simple job. Seems like I had to enlarge both the openings and the recess for the flanges. Took some tricky woodworking. I took video, which I could dig up for you, but you'd need some basic skills to pull it off.
My friend chose drivers based on who knows what. I think they're Eminence but I don't remember what model. However, I repeat, they sound really good. A lucky shot!
My friend chose drivers based on who knows what. I think they're Eminence but I don't remember what model. However, I repeat, they sound really good. A lucky shot!
Yep. Just another way to confuse power ratings.
I don't recall any manufactureres using this number in a misleading way, but I've seen my fair share of folks who were unaware of the difference, and thinking they were getting way more amp than they were.
The Acoustic 370 manual lists power consumption (how much us coming out of the wall plug for the non-techies) at 730 Watts for 365 Watts RMS. So almost double. So 400 Watts of power consumption at 200 Watts RMS seems to be just about right as well.
They also list the idle power consumption, which is cool, of them, at 50 Watts (plugged in, turned on, no music). A misinformed person might see that and think, WOW, What a wimpy amp! No wonder Jaco needed two.
Having used a watt meter, I don't know of many ways to measure power. I think the confusion comes when relating that to sound level.It's what I (tongue in cheek) tend to call unspecified power ratings. [company name] Watts.
Many companies are very good about noting if the power measurements are in RMS (This in my opinion should be listed and measured accurately by all manufacturers), or if they are talking about Music Power, or Peak Power.
If power is specified and includes a qualifier, especially if it's RMS, those measurements at least have a chance of being numbers that can be be measured and verified independently. Peak and music can be estimated or derived from RMS, but that figure needs to be right, for the others to even be in the ballpark.
There are many ways to measure power. There are also ways to estimate power in other terms from those measurements. Lacking any qualifiers for power specifications, is in my opinion suspicious. You have no way to verify the power claims made by some manufacturers if they won't say that they are actually measuring, calculating or just guessing.
In the previous posts someone said [company name]'s amp is "400w" (no qualifier) and someone else said it's output is 200 Watts. Not only was the the qualifier of RMS included, but so was the load (4 Ohms). So we have a disagreement. Which one do you trust? They could both be correct as in 200 Watts RMS might correlate to 400 Watts of Music Power. But how do we know if someone leaves out that information.
There is a lot of misinformation about amp power. The only prevention from getting caught up in it is to be aware that there are different ways that one can refer to power, and be suspicious if the type of power is not specified. If a company is specific about it's specifications, I tend to trust them more than those who are not as forthcoming. I think more companies are understanding that we want the truth about their products. It is important for us to hold those who aren't, accountable.
While I did use [company name] Watts, in my reply, that information was posted by a TB member, not by the company itself. I should have called it [TB name] Watts.
I found this from a copy of an Acoustic 370 manual. It does provide a lot of detailed information about power specs.
View attachment 4893186
Technical Specifications - Acoustic 370 Instruction Manual [Page 4]
Bottom line, we tend to focus on power, but in doing so we my dismiss many other important factors. If we at least understand that power can be represented in many different ways, we can better protect ourselves from any potential misinformation.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,070
- 5
- 221,135
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
There are many ways to define power based on waveform and time period (duty cycle).
What type(s) of power does your Wattmeter measure?
Volts x Amps is another way.
Yes, you are correct in stating that many people confuse the affects of loudness and power.
As also noted in my posting of the Acoustic 370 specs, power output increases with distortion. Distortion affects the wave type and duty cycle, thus we must define power in order to properly measure it. They go hand in hand.
But the potential for radical change is a high possibility.
Yes it usually is this complicated. But you can go with a recommendation that someone here has tried and found to work. Or see what the speaker manufacturers recommends for your cabinet.
Optimum performance comes from designing the cab to work with the intended speaker(s). T/S parameters focus on this for the low end specs of speakers. The guitar guys can pretty much through anything in a box and be fine. At their frequencies, they don't need to concern themselves with low end performance, and the potentials for damage to speakers in a mismatched cab.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,070
- 5
- 221,135
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,070
- 5
- 221,135
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Do you want good results or crappy results?
You asked a question, now do you want a good answer or do you really not care?
Haha I care! I'm just not trying to do anything that involves making any modifications to the cab.
Given your knowledge, skill level and level of commitment, I'm thinking the previously mentioned Peavey Black Widows would be your best bet. Or the Scorpions. Physically, I think they would be a drop-in replacement, but I'm not all that knowledgeable about it, so you'd want to verify that. Replace both drivers -- if you don't, you'll probably be replacing the other one soon enough.
A pic of the cab in question might elicit some other info about fitting the different drivers -- I doubt it's as intense as has been indicated, but I guess that is a possibility. Do you know how to remove the grill?
A pic of the cab in question might elicit some other info about fitting the different drivers -- I doubt it's as intense as has been indicated, but I guess that is a possibility. Do you know how to remove the grill?
