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Percy Jones: Sad Interview

#21
When I was 17, a blues-guitar player told me, "When you get older, you're gonna be a monster. You gotta listen to this bass player to get there." He gave me a copy of Livestock - which I carry with me in my briefcase to this day (but now on CD - one of these days my palm will play mp3s, and I refuse to buy and ipod).

Listening to what he does inspired me to go fretless (even though I had heard Jaco before this), and push the boundaries. The country band I was with a couple of years ago wondered why I brought my fretless to a gig - I said I wanted to try it on a couple of the original ballads...then I used it on his original rockers. Now they wonder why the originals don't sound like they did when I played...but I digress...

Music for musicians doesn't make money - because usually musicians don't have money to support other musicians. The local music store isn't catering to the musician that comes in to get his strings or his axe set-up - he's looking at making a buck off the soccer moms that want their children to be well rounded. This is why I'm glad the Internet has the capability to create distribution channels and satellite radio offers access to music that isn't available on commercial (nor public) radio. That said, I like this part of Percy's home page:

Thursday, APRIL 18, 2007: Fontana's 105 Eldridge St. NYC 212-334-6740
Wednesday, MAY 8, 2007: Lion's Den, 214 Sullivan St. NYC 212-634-0427

Saturday, MAY 18, 2007: Fatbaby, 112 Rivington St. NYC 212-533-1888

Gigs to hear him in NYC for those fortunate enough to get there. I think he needs to create a myspacemusic and post some tunes to it for sale - soon it will be the way all of us distribute music to each other, as CDs become the new 8-tracks.

Must listen to "Malaga Virgen" now before I lay me down to sleep....
 
#22
PhR said:
I meant they must have sold a lot more than their contemporaries (British jazz-rock bands like the aforementioned National Health, Gilgamesh, Soft Machine, Isotope etc.) because they had Phil Collins on drums. He had a "name" that an average listener knew, the others were more known to musos, to put it bluntly.
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Again, what is "a lot more"? I have a lot more books than most people but that doesn't make me a library;)

It was fusion, which rarely sells to the degree of even the slightest Pop hit. We're not exactly talking Kenny G money here, are we?
:hiding:
 
#23
T. B. Player said:
When I was 17, a blues-guitar player told me, "When you get older, you're gonna be a monster. You gotta listen to this bass player to get there." He gave me a copy of Livestock - which I carry with me in my briefcase to this day (but now on CD - one of these days my palm will play mp3s, and I refuse to buy and ipod).

Listening to what he does inspired me to go fretless (even though I had heard Jaco before this), and push the boundaries. The country band I was with a couple of years ago wondered why I brought my fretless to a gig - I said I wanted to try it on a couple of the original ballads...then I used it on his original rockers. Now they wonder why the originals don't sound like they did when I played...but I digress...

Music for musicians doesn't make money - because usually musicians don't have money to support other musicians. The local music store isn't catering to the musician that comes in to get his strings or his axe set-up - he's looking at making a buck off the soccer moms that want their children to be well rounded. This is why I'm glad the Internet has the capability to create distribution channels and satellite radio offers access to music that isn't available on commercial (nor public) radio. That said, I like this part of Percy's home page:

Thursday, APRIL 18, 2007: Fontana's 105 Eldridge St. NYC 212-334-6740
Wednesday, MAY 8, 2007: Lion's Den, 214 Sullivan St. NYC 212-634-0427

Saturday, MAY 18, 2007: Fatbaby, 112 Rivington St. NYC 212-533-1888

Gigs to hear him in NYC for those fortunate enough to get there. I think he needs to create a myspacemusic and post some tunes to it for sale - soon it will be the way all of us distribute music to each other, as CDs become the new 8-tracks.

Must listen to "Malaga Virgen" now before I lay me down to sleep....
Click to expand...

There's a more basic reason music for musicians doesn't make money... most people aren't musicians and most people definitely wouldn't "get" something like Brand X. I seriously doubt any of them went into it as some big money making venture. Doing a tour with David Cassidy would've been far more lucratrive:D. Or Rick Springfield. Or one of them other guys. Not Jazz Fusion.
 
#24
Phil Collins and Genesis weren't exactly a money-making machine in the 70's. I remember Phil Collins solo album not selling when it first came out, it took a few years.
 
#25
Percy is a rare breed, a true innovator. He has a vocabulary at his fingertips few can imagine, let alone achieve. I agree w/ the comparison to Allan Holdsworth in that they both redefined the language of their instrument. For the masses? I guess not. But I sure am greatful when they come along and give us a glimpse of the future.
 
#26
PhR said:
I meant they must have sold a lot more than their contemporaries (British jazz-rock bands like the aforementioned National Health, Gilgamesh, Soft Machine, Isotope etc.) because they had Phil Collins on drums. He had a "name" that an average listener knew, the others were more known to musos, to put it bluntly.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I think you'll find Soft Machine sold way more records than Brand X ever dreamed of. They were on a major label (Columbia) who actively promoted them for many years. Not that they got rich either.

Certainly Brand X had no more luck at radio airplay than the others. Most Genesis/Collins fans have no idea he played in a band called Brand X (or of his work with John Martyn, Peter Banks, etc.). Why would someone who dug Against All Odds be interested in Brand X?

You might be surprised at how few records some bands actually sell even though they get lots of great reviews and other press. If great reviews were all you needed Captain Beefheart would be filling stadiums.

I did a gig a few years ago where the sub drummer was Dave Mattacks...a guy who was a first call studio drummer in the UK for two decades, was in Jethro Tull, recorded with McCartney, etc. and he was taking a $75 weeknight blues gig. He told me that night he has never seen any royalties from the half dozen albums he recorded with Fairport Convention for Island (all still in print after 35 years). Welcome to the music business.
 
#27
Percy Jones is one of a very few original voices on the fretless bass, and in an ideal world he'd be getting a parcel of loot for just being himself...But that isn't the way the recording industry game was/is played. The deal signed with Charisma was a typical one for its time - weighted in favor of the company at the expense of the artist.
He's had to do non-music work in the past to support himself, and while that isn't very gratifying from an artistic perspective it does grant one the freedom to be exactly what they want to be when the fingers meet the string.
I will certainly continue to buy products featuring his involvement, and would love to get my hands on one of those Affirma/EDA style basses.

For those with an interest, Tunnels does have a Link Removed.
 
#29
brianrost said:
Sorry but I think you'll find Soft Machine sold way more records than Brand X ever dreamed of. They were on a major label (Columbia) who actively promoted them for many years. Not that they got rich either.

Certainly Brand X had no more luck at radio airplay than the others. Most Genesis/Collins fans have no idea he played in a band called Brand X (or of his work with John Martyn, Peter Banks, etc.). Why would someone who dug Against All Odds be interested in Brand X?
Click to expand...

Well, Brand X's label (Charisma) weren't that small but I get your drift and you may be right. Hopefully Percy (and other members) will get their royalties someday. With Hackett's solo stuff recently remastered and reissued, maybe they'll do the same with Brand X's back catalogue.

brianrost said:
I did a gig a few years ago where the sub drummer was Dave Mattacks...a guy who was a first call studio drummer in the UK for two decades, was in Jethro Tull, recorded with McCartney, etc. and he was taking a $75 weeknight blues gig. He told me that night he has never seen any royalties from the half dozen albums he recorded with Fairport Convention for Island (all still in print after 35 years). Welcome to the music business.
Click to expand...

Outrageous.
 
#30
brianrost said:
I did a gig a few years ago where the sub drummer was Dave Mattacks... he has never seen any royalties from the half dozen albums he recorded with Fairport Convention for Island (all still in print after 35 years).
Click to expand...
Speaking of Fairport Convention, I once played a casual with Jerry Donahue, the guitarist who replaced Richard Thompson. Real nice guy who played awesomely. It was a house party, or rather a garage party. We set up in the driveway and played to a handful of people sitting on lawn chairs in the garage. Afterwards, Jerry sold us all copies of his album "Telecasting", from the trunk of his car. Don't remember what we got paid, but Jerry went home with all of his pay, and a bite of each of ours as well!
 
#31
Jazz fusion (the American variety) did pretty well in the late 70's. I remember lots of AOR airplay for Weather Report, Mahivishnu Orchestra, Jeff Beck, Stanley Clarke, and RTF. And the pop charts were filled with Jazz influenced material like Steely Dan, EWF, Chuck Mangione, Grover Washington, etc. By the time the British fusion era got hot the pop charts were ruled by drum machines, orchestra hit synths, and "image" acts. I remember when Holdsworth hooked up with the help of Eddie Van Halen and a ton of publicity in the guitar mags to release the first big IOU CD with Jack Bruce on Vocals (Jeff Berlin and Chad Wackerman). The record company after two years of hassle released an EP that did not sell. Despite all of the hype, Holdsworth spent most of the 80's playing mid sized Rock clubs. I didn't hear about Soft Machine or Brand X in the states until the late 80's and I was very much in the Jazz loop (which was actually pretty bare in the 80's accept for Metheny). All in all that may be the era when the music really died. Pop still hasn't recovered.
 
#32
burk48237 said:
I remember when Holdsworth hooked up with the help of Eddie Van Halen and a ton of publicity in the guitar mags to release the first big IOU CD with Jack Bruce on Vocals (Jeff Berlin and Chad Wackerman).
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Paul Williams on vocals and Paul Carmichael on bass, no Bruce or Berlin on that one. Which I have on vinyl from the show :)

And Gary Husband drums :)

Invalid Link Removed
 
#34
The Penguin said:
Paul Williams on vocals and Paul Carmichael on bass, no Bruce or Berlin on that one. Which I have on vinyl from the show :)

And Gary Husband drums :)

Invalid Link Removed
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My bad, I was thinking of Road Games. I'm getting real close to fifty and the memory is not what it use to be. Either way they had a ton of "musician hype" and didn't sell. I remember fusion acts in the late seventies selling out some pretty big halls. Weather Report and Stanley both played Pine Knob (about 15000) in Detroit. If they did a reunion tour together with Jaco back from the dead they would barely fill RO theater (1800) today.:confused:
 
#35
burk48237 said:
My bad, I was thinking of Road Games. I'm getting real close to fifty and the memory is not what it use to be. Either way they had a ton of "musician hype" and didn't sell. I remember fusion acts in the late seventies selling out some pretty big halls. Weather Report and Stanley both played Pine Knob (about 15000) in Detroit. If they did a reunion tour together with Jaco back from the dead they would barely fill RO theater (1800) today.:confused:
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You're kidding, right?
 
#36
Ahhh, yes....when the realization hits that there are many, many fabulous,talented players out there that will never be known or recognized by the general populace, it is sobering indeed! I have a friend of 30 years, a high ranking exec in the corporate music biz (he is also a lifelong musician), who once told me "The music business isn't about music, it's about business". That's the reality of the situation. The folks who get into music to "get signed...be a star" eventually drop by the wayside from attrition. The folks who plug along, and keep playin' for life, because music is necessary for their life, are the true heroes and stars. The reality of a life in, or with music for 99% of us is playing clubs, GB stuff, sessions, pit-work, benefits, private parties, at home, etc.--for little, or no recognition. Doesn't matter...we get to PLAY, and get paid (sometimes)! Great deal! And, you'll run into players that will astound you, and.....nobody'll know, or care. Fair? Nope! Brianrost mentioned the fabulous Dave Mattacks earlier. I'm amazed, but grateful, that I've had the opportunity to see and meet Dave at many of his local Boston area gigs over the last few years, most at typical small bars/clubs. He is , quite possibly, one of the nicest, most self-effacing people I've ever met. His catalog is HUGE, but he does these jobs. Why?..."Well, I'm a working drummer, and it's a gig". The man is a MUSICIAN. I remember reading an interview with Ringo Starr, where he was asked why he still when out and did gigs and tours, when he "didn't really have to". His reply..."I'm a drummer, that's what I do. I play drums". There Ya go!
 
#37
It sucks to hear that Percy is not getting his due. He is, by all accounts, a fasntastic player, but I guess, in the world of music, at least in a commercial sense, that counts for nothing. Otherwise, Wooten, Hellborg and Hamm would be MTV megastars, featuring regularly on Cribs and "Hellborg knows best".

I mean, yes, fusion is not a big seller. I read that back in the 1970's, fusion accounted for just less than 5% of all record sales. These days, it does not even get close to 0.1% of all records sales. However, back then, things were a lot more lucrative for fusion acts. "Headhunters" by Herbie Hancock sold well (not strictly fusion, I know), Weather Report sold out Newcastle City Hall and such.

Mind you, I'm not a huge Brand X fan, even though fusion is without a doubt, my favourite genre of music. I just find a lot of Brand X stuff uninspired, despite Percy being a great player. Still, they have their fans and that I cannot knock!
 
#38
IMO, even if the remnants of the recording industry put their hand to promoting music-intensive (as opposed to personality-intensive) forms of expression, the consumer still wouldn't 'get it'...Too much of a disconnect between the reality of mastering an instrument as a life-long process and their appreciation of same, and thus the value systems that we as musicians adhere to means nothing to them generally.

That's not to say that I personally hold the audience in contempt ("Lowly worms! Respect my genius! Bah!" ;) ) but I have done this long enough to recognize their limitations when it comes to being capable of recognizing and rating favorably those who devote an 'inordinate' amount of time to honing their talents, in a society that worships a pop idol's gluteal firmness higher than their ability to warble a tune without pitch correction.

:D
 
#39
I think fusion and much of the blowing type of jazz just doesn't move very many non-musicians. Often it sounds like a bunch of notes and a hip chord substitution may just sound like a wrong chord.When I go to a fusion gig, it's nearly always muso's and a few unsuspecting first-dates.
I can count on one hand the # of non-muso's I know who truely enjoy progressive inst. music. People want more easily digestable music.
I went on a dbl date once to see Jean Luc Ponty and Al Dimeola. Post concert we were asking our girls what their impressions were...." I thought the lights were cool".
There is a difference between the US and Europe to be sure. For ex., I did gigs w/ Zappa alumni to rooms of 200-400 people ( mostly white males) here in the states. In Europe we were playing 1000-2000 type venues (women too!).
Long post but... In the case of Percy.... I think...on top of my previous
musings, bass in particular poses even more challenge. Many people don't hear the nuance of bass as much as feel the pulse. An unusual sub. in the bass may make a head twist, perhaps unknowingly, but not "wow that was a great sub in the bass". People relate to voices, and instruments a little higher in register. Bass has long been a support inst. and people aren't used to having to focus on it as much as feel it. So when someone like Percy does something unique and perhaps not done before, for ex. slide a harmonic and fingered note at the same time as a cool fingernail/string buzz, If you're not an attentive bass player, you may not notice, or care. I love it and I'm glad he does it, but my wife is unimpressed, and waiting for a song with a melody or pocket to grab onto.
For these and other reasons, I believe bass as a lead/focal point inst., provides daunting challenge. Just take your few bars in "Brown Eyed Girl" and be happy.
I feel better now and still love Percys playing.
 

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