I bet you went home alone that night...heavy fusion has never been a girl's best friend!
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Percy Jones: Sad Interview
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
I bet you went home alone that night...heavy fusion has never been a girl's best friend!
Too true. My ex (raised in So. Dakota on country music) used to holler "Put on something with words!!"
Too true. My ex (raised in So. Dakota on country music) used to holler "Put on something with words!!"
That's when you whip out some Robert Wyatt or Dagmar Krause, that'll teach 'em
I'll bet there's a TalkShakespeare board out there having the same discussion trying to understand why TV shows anything but the Bard.
+1
As far as music for a living, look at Allan Holdsworth's career.
yeah, it's all very sad for these genius musicians. When Allan played the birchmere last year I was there and made a couple of acquaintances. I purchased 2 CDs and a DVD and convinced the other guys to buy some stuff as well. I have known about Allan's struggles for years and hoped that at least this would contribute a bit.
I keep waiting to hear that these guys have thrown the towel.
I take it Allan has had it rough over the years? He's a fantastic guitarist, what is the struggle you speak of?
The music biz. I am glad to say is changing with digital technology. It puts more money back into the musicians, prob. even more than indie record labels. One could record, post it, and sell it. No record label BS.
The million dollar record deal is a bit of a bogus idea that money is made by the musician. A typical well managed deal in the 70's or 80s might see the artist get 10 points of a record. Worse if the artist, is a 5 piece band. Each member, assuming equal division gets 2 points each.....
About 50 points goes to the label. The other points go to all the advances, studio time, production costs, copyrights, accountants, legal fees, and so forth. Then you have tour and promotion costs which need to be recouped and if the sales don't pick up, then haha. Somebody somewhere picks up the tab for rock and roll excesses, and all the TVs flying out of windows....
Unscrupulous business practices are better policed now with better knowledge about the biz. but still there are people looking for that million dollar deal.
FYI: a hit pop record in the UK is something in the region of 150 000 units. Not a lot, but these are the figures. Of course there are those that would sell in excess of this figure.
A mediocre (sales) fusion recording might sell 15000 in its first year.
Say a record is £10.That's 150 000 quid. 10% is 15K. 4 members in Brand X, --- that's about under £4K. That's a month's salary for many. That's what you get paid, i.e. if some one kept the books tidy....This of course is simple accounting, in reality the sales are in dribs and drabs and you might get your 2.5% royalty for 1000 units that sold last year. In simple accounting terms that's roughly £250.
You'd get a bit more if you own the copyrights of the tunes.
My days in the music production biz are over, and I play now in various cover bands and I have a full time day job and career. How much do I make gigging annually playing silly covers? About 40 - 50 gigs a year, each gig roughly about £100. Yeah, about 4K.
The million dollar record deal is a bit of a bogus idea that money is made by the musician. A typical well managed deal in the 70's or 80s might see the artist get 10 points of a record. Worse if the artist, is a 5 piece band. Each member, assuming equal division gets 2 points each.....
About 50 points goes to the label. The other points go to all the advances, studio time, production costs, copyrights, accountants, legal fees, and so forth. Then you have tour and promotion costs which need to be recouped and if the sales don't pick up, then haha. Somebody somewhere picks up the tab for rock and roll excesses, and all the TVs flying out of windows....
Unscrupulous business practices are better policed now with better knowledge about the biz. but still there are people looking for that million dollar deal.
FYI: a hit pop record in the UK is something in the region of 150 000 units. Not a lot, but these are the figures. Of course there are those that would sell in excess of this figure.
A mediocre (sales) fusion recording might sell 15000 in its first year.
Say a record is £10.That's 150 000 quid. 10% is 15K. 4 members in Brand X, --- that's about under £4K. That's a month's salary for many. That's what you get paid, i.e. if some one kept the books tidy....This of course is simple accounting, in reality the sales are in dribs and drabs and you might get your 2.5% royalty for 1000 units that sold last year. In simple accounting terms that's roughly £250.
You'd get a bit more if you own the copyrights of the tunes.
My days in the music production biz are over, and I play now in various cover bands and I have a full time day job and career. How much do I make gigging annually playing silly covers? About 40 - 50 gigs a year, each gig roughly about £100. Yeah, about 4K.
The truth is even "Smooth Jazz" doesn't sell very well, let alone more serious forms of jazz and jazz fusion. We are a dumbed down populace. What happened to the day when truly great music was the popular music of the day - 99% of kids today couldn't stay focused long enough to listen to a Glen Miller Orchestra record all the way through. We've become all about easy, fast, in your face and it's permeated the music business as well. It's not just music though. Look at today's movies. They're rubbish compared to the movies of yesteryear. Not all of them of course, but it's all about the special effect now. The writing's horrible, the acting is mediocre at best and when a great film does get released it barely sells.
Music is sadly no different.
Music is sadly no different.
Alvaro Martín Gómez A.
TalkBass' resident Bongo + cowbell player
Mr. Dale's words instantly reminded me of Robert Fripp after he created Discipline Global Mobile. Most of the content of Invalid Link Removed can be found in the "Absent Lovers - King Crimson Live in Montreal" CD's booklet and the first paragraph of the copyright statement appears in every DGM release, as far as I can tell.
More people are participating now than ever before and they can't all be winners. In spite of that I think there's some very good music and movies being made these days... just a lot more to wade through.
As far as comparing movies to yesteryear, IMO that's mainly nostalgia talking. Ever watch Mystery Science Theater 3000? They didn't have to look hard to find those movies
. Back in the day there were good movies and crap movies, just like now.That article with Percy Jones was quite sobering. It really shows the sheer powerlessness an artist can have over their own career financial wise. But it is uplifting to know an innovator like Mr Jones is still sticking to his guns and doing what he believes in. I have read other articles about his through the years but his candor and honesty here are quite a wake up call to a lot of younger kids that just want a quick record deal in this American Idol culture we live in. Music is really for those that are in it for a life time not the faint of heart who lose a TV contest and quit or the youngster that feels some sort of entitlement to a record contract and riches.Mr Jones spend years honing his skills and for that he should have all our deepest respect. He is a true bass artist and he is one of the reasons I love my fretless bass and play that instrument only.
I didn't know that. I saw him a couple of times in Germany and the Netherlands, he's giging a lot over here (for obvious reasons). I took part in a master class of Gary 5-6 years ago in Germany and we (the students) asked him about making a living as a bassplayer. He mentioned it's hard if you're not into studio, recording or backing pop artis and stuff like that. Back then he said he's doing fine teaching and writing books, but they couldn't get any gigs with Tribal Tech.
And since he's not that much of a good sight-reader (as he said) he won't be "everybody's" bassplayer.
I guess Spain isn't bad at all but if someone like him is "forced" to go overseas to make a living..that's sobering in deed.
Last thing I read about Holdsworth was that he is a part-time brewer.
Someone here on tb mentioned that Randy-Hope Tayler is a part-time busdriver
Couldn't believe it.
Last thing I read about Holdsworth was that he is a part-time brewer.
Someone here on tb mentioned that Randy-Hope Tayler is a part-time busdriver
It's not just fusion. Lots of famous musicians in niche genres have day jobs to make ends meet.
That's not counting all the pros who quit music altogether to take up more lucrative jobs.
Theres no justice ( sometimes ) in the music business for those that just love to play for playings sake.
If there was, Jones , Holdsworth, et al would be zillionaires. Tough life.
I've been a Percy fan, and Brand x fan since the 70's and when Karn popped his head up with Japan, both of them became my 2 top fave players. Slap style bores the enamel off of my teeth, so these 2 monsters really cut the mustard in my book.
Especially since they are both so unique, or were, i should say.
Tunnels bass playing isnt so out there IMO ( though of course it is in its own way ) as the stuff he did with Brand x.
Same with Karn and Japan.
I see also Holdsworth was also mentioned regarding the lack of royalties, and to put this in a nutshell, i saw him live in a tiny jazz bar in the student town of Oxford , UK. This was when AH was already famous and would be around the mid 80's i guess.
There was an URB player and a drummer. That was the band.
The seating held appox 30 people. I think it was a very cheap gig ...hazy memory, but i know i paid peanuts.
Imagine this guy, doing this little gig. He surely was not in it for the bucks, not that gig anyways.
I've got some GONG with holdsworth appearing, ...Gazeuse ! is the CD and he plays some awesome stuff, and they were a pretty professional band and i'm sure he would have got some royalties from that, but i bet it doesnt last long.
If there was, Jones , Holdsworth, et al would be zillionaires. Tough life.
I've been a Percy fan, and Brand x fan since the 70's and when Karn popped his head up with Japan, both of them became my 2 top fave players. Slap style bores the enamel off of my teeth, so these 2 monsters really cut the mustard in my book.
Especially since they are both so unique, or were, i should say.
Tunnels bass playing isnt so out there IMO ( though of course it is in its own way ) as the stuff he did with Brand x.
Same with Karn and Japan.
I see also Holdsworth was also mentioned regarding the lack of royalties, and to put this in a nutshell, i saw him live in a tiny jazz bar in the student town of Oxford , UK. This was when AH was already famous and would be around the mid 80's i guess.
There was an URB player and a drummer. That was the band.
The seating held appox 30 people. I think it was a very cheap gig ...hazy memory, but i know i paid peanuts.
Imagine this guy, doing this little gig. He surely was not in it for the bucks, not that gig anyways.
I've got some GONG with holdsworth appearing, ...Gazeuse ! is the CD and he plays some awesome stuff, and they were a pretty professional band and i'm sure he would have got some royalties from that, but i bet it doesnt last long.
I really liked the stuff Holdsworth did with Level 42, he played some great solos for them! And his use of headless guitars too, excellent! Whats more, he and Berlin are an excellent team of Bruford's "One of a kind" album, though in truth, I have always much prefered John Mclaughlin.
Percy & Brand x were one of my favorites and I got to see them live in Cleveland. Amazing live.
The critics always panned Percy, unfairly, as a Jaco clone, which, yes, had some influence on him, but never a clone. You can say the same about Karn.
It's funny how many people forgot how Soft Machine started as a 60's British pop band.
Zappa once was quoted as saying a Jazz musician = poverty.
True musical genius will never go with the masses because only musicians a few learned people "get it". If everyone "got it" the world would be a better place, but that's not how it works. Accept it.
I guess that's why Zappa dumbed down his music with cheesy lyrics about the simple things like booze, sex & catholic girls, the good things in life, put to brilliant music. Half of Zappa's audience was idiots and the other half musicians, but it drew a large audience and got him top 40 airplay.
If you want to "make it" money wise you better have some compromise in your music with either, singing, a big effect show or music people can dance to and understand. Also you need to build a live following, sticking to one band to build it. Changing bands every year makes this hard. King Crimson & Zappa are hallmarks of this, constantly rotating band members, but always under the "band" name. Holdsworth not so much.
The biggest thing any great musician should do is learn to sing, it takes you so much further business & control wise.
A good point is Clapton vs. Jeff Beck- Clapton has mega commercial success while Jeff Beck, nowadays, no one young knows who he is!
Say Beck and they first think of the other one, the famous Beck.
The critics always panned Percy, unfairly, as a Jaco clone, which, yes, had some influence on him, but never a clone. You can say the same about Karn.
It's funny how many people forgot how Soft Machine started as a 60's British pop band.
Zappa once was quoted as saying a Jazz musician = poverty.
True musical genius will never go with the masses because only musicians a few learned people "get it". If everyone "got it" the world would be a better place, but that's not how it works. Accept it.
I guess that's why Zappa dumbed down his music with cheesy lyrics about the simple things like booze, sex & catholic girls, the good things in life, put to brilliant music. Half of Zappa's audience was idiots and the other half musicians, but it drew a large audience and got him top 40 airplay.
If you want to "make it" money wise you better have some compromise in your music with either, singing, a big effect show or music people can dance to and understand. Also you need to build a live following, sticking to one band to build it. Changing bands every year makes this hard. King Crimson & Zappa are hallmarks of this, constantly rotating band members, but always under the "band" name. Holdsworth not so much.
The biggest thing any great musician should do is learn to sing, it takes you so much further business & control wise.
A good point is Clapton vs. Jeff Beck- Clapton has mega commercial success while Jeff Beck, nowadays, no one young knows who he is!
Say Beck and they first think of the other one, the famous Beck.
