1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)


Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by wild4oldcars, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. wild4oldcars


    Jan 22, 2012
    Garner, NC
    So, basically, I would like the TBOT input on the following:
    How do you define it?
    Can it exist? (and explain)
    Are there any instances in the practical world in which it exists/can be observed?

    Personally, I would say that perfection is subjective to he who beholds the phenomenon, and therefore perfection cannot be one unified idea, as everyone's view thereof is not unanimously consistent.

    On the other hand, I have a friend who has argued the point that should a composer compose a piece of musical literature, if he feels an ensemble has performed it flawlessly (perfectly), then it is therefore perfect, as only the writer knows what the piece should truly sound like. Does this mean the performance was truly perfect, or was it only perfect by the composer's standards? Both or neither?

    He also brought up the concept that outer space is perfectly silent due to the lack of air. However, upon further research, I believe this is false because there are particles, although few and far between, that can oscillate and produce sound. These tiny vibrations/compressions would never be picked up by the human ear. Regardless of whether or not we can perceive it, the sound exists, and therefore, perfect silence does not. Similar concepts apply to the deaf, as perception (or more specifically, lack thereof) does not equal true silence.

    Note: I am not aiming to bring about a debate on perfectionism, and how it relates to us as humans, but simply am trying to understand the means by which others define and view perfection in a practical sense.

    Is this dumb and pointless? Maybe, but that's the fun of TBOT, right?
  2. Gab124

    Gab124 The path is greater than the destination Supporting Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    Perfection IS in the eye/ear/mind of the beholder. However, can it be argued that perfection requires imperfection to exist? Example, nature; we can identify things in nature that are imperfect by our standards, but nature is perfection in action.
    Just my .02

    By the way, what is TBOT?
  3. wild4oldcars


    Jan 22, 2012
    Garner, NC
    TBOT-TalkBass Off Topic section
  4. Bloodhammer

    Bloodhammer Twinkle Twinkle Black Star

    Jul 7, 2009
    Shreveport, Louisiana
    I suppose there is objectivity in a mechanical sense. Every part has to be made to exact specs to work together as a whole. The narrower the tolerance for error, the closer to perfection.
  5. I hate it when band mates accuse me of being a "perfectionist." I think it's nothing more than a giant cop-out on their part.

    I am an idealist. An ideal is much easier to obtain than perfection. An ideal takes into account that nothing is perfect, or remains perfect for very long. An ideal can be achieved, and with effort, maintained.
  6. wild4oldcars


    Jan 22, 2012
    Garner, NC
    I agree that as the margin of error approaches +/-0, you approach perfection in a sense that there is no room for flaw. However, I am not certain this is possible...
  7. IMHO, Perfection in the pursuit that brought most of us to this silly neighborhood is exemplified in what Mutt Lange and Mike Shipley did for Shania Twain.

    This assumes you're in favor of making lots of money for yourself and others.

    Otherwise, I'd wager you'd shun public exposure in any form.

    ...and be... um... not here...
  8. Stewie26

    Stewie26 Supporting Member

    Mmmmm....Major league baseball bases are 90 feet apart. 89' would be too close and 91' would be too far. 90' is true perfection.
  9. Unrepresented

    Unrepresented Something Borderline Offensive

    Jul 1, 2006
    San Diego, CA
    Is there a difference between "accuracy" and "perfection?"
  10. Darth Handsome

    Darth Handsome Banned

    Oct 1, 2010
    "Perfection" is an alternate spelling of "D-a-r-t-h".
  11. mellowinman

    mellowinman Free Man

    Oct 19, 2011
    Perfection exists in finding the purity in imperfection. We are all flawed, and as such, are perfect. Musical perfection comes in playing a performance that comes from your heart, and is expressed honestly. When another soul perceives that expression, it is a perfect expression. Musical perfection does not come in some mathematical formula. To play exactly on the beat, and on the pitch, in a measured way would be robotic, or mechanical. The true perfection in music exists ONLY in imperfection, and as such, is a paradox.

    Enjoy your paradox. They are usually quite lovely.
  12. Unrepresented

    Unrepresented Something Borderline Offensive

    Jul 1, 2006
    San Diego, CA
    My perfection has a second name
    It's M-A-Y-E-R.
  13. edpal

    edpal Banned

    Oct 3, 2007
    Specs are rarely absolute or exact (since the measurements are only as good as the devices used for measuring), usually a given range. I.e. +/- .001". From a functional standpoint mechanical perfection would usually be all interacting parts at the center of the tolerance range. If one part is at the high end of the spec and it's interacting mate at the low end, mechanical perfection per the design will generally not be achieved. YMMV

    Two criteria I use for "relative perfection"....that practical sense.
    1.Does it do/fill the intended purpose extremely well.
    2.Is it unlikely or impractical to seek/find further improvement.

    My wife is relatively perfect but she is not perfection.
    Most basses are relatively perfect but none are perfection.

    "Perfection" is a presumptive position, based on the idea that something could not be better.
  14. nukes_da_bass

    nukes_da_bass Banned

    Feb 19, 2006
    west suburban boston
    Nothing in the material world reaches perfection. As soon as we are born, or a machine is built, oxidation begins and death is immanent.
    Possibly there is perfection outside of matter- but since we are stuck within a material universe, we are unable to obtain that knowledge.
  15. Unrepresented

    Unrepresented Something Borderline Offensive

    Jul 1, 2006
    San Diego, CA
    How do we know oxidization isn't perfection?
  16. slobake

    slobake resident ... something Supporting Member

    You have been around here long enought to know better than that.
    We will have a perfect debate. You are right it should be fun.
  17. Milk


    Sep 16, 2013
    Montreal, Canada
    I am 100% certain I posted in this thread this morning. Hmm...maybe it never got through. I guess its too much to expect perfection from TB or the internet.
  18. edpal

    edpal Banned

    Oct 3, 2007
    Because RUST never sleeps and you can't have a perfect life without sleep. :cool: *Those are sleep shades.
  19. Unrepresented

    Unrepresented Something Borderline Offensive

    Jul 1, 2006
    San Diego, CA
    How do we know that tweakers aren't perfection?
  20. bassinplace


    Dec 1, 2008
    Let the dream die! :p