Double Bass Phil Jones BP-200

[matt holt]

So I'm looking for a small 200w class-D to strap to the top of my MAS16 to make a DIY combo amp that's small, and gets a decent (doesn’t need to be flawless) sound without an external preamp. Basically a small plug-and-play rig for times that I just need a little bump in volume, and my full (and admittedly somewhat over-complicated) rig seems overkill.

Looking at a number of options, but the Phil Jones BP-200 is one that I don't seem to be able to find a lot of feedback on from DB players. Has anyone used this with DB? If so, any thoughts?

 

[bherman]

So I'm looking for a small 200w class-D to strap to the top of my MAS16 to make a DIY combo amp that's small, and gets a decent (doesn’t need to be flawless) sound without an external preamp. Basically a small plug-and-play rig for times that I just need a little bump in volume, and my full (and admittedly somewhat over-complicated) rig seems overkill.

Looking at a number of options, but the Phil Jones BP-200 is one that I don't seem to be able to find a lot of feedback on from DB players. Has anyone used this with DB? If so, any thoughts?

Not familiar with that head. I do have (and use regularly) two that warrant consideration. Least cost option (and well-regarded here on TB) is the TC BAM 200. Its a tiny head and pretty neutral-sounding. The only down side to it is that it only has a 1/4" speaker out, so I made a 1/4" to Speakon cable for my cab. The other head that I have and love is a Genzler Magellan 350. Really great little amp, more power than you are looking for and costs more, but is top-notch gear.

 

[bassically_eli]

Well pretty much everything Phil Jones makes is upright friendly and high quality, so I wouldn't hesitate to buy it if it has the features and price tag you're looking for.

There's lots of options at the 200w level, but I think my first choice (price aside) would be the Traynor SB 200...lots of features, 4-band EQ, high input impedance...and iirc, the dimensions are just right for the MAS16 (I actually considered one for my MAS16s/26 at one point, ended up with a Warwick LWA500 instead). For the price, tho, I would also be considering the BAM.

 

[JBarz]

I’ve got one. It’s clean and transparent, but needs a HPF. Works really well with my old GK cab. Perhaps underpowered for a lot of applications unless paired with a powered cab. PM me if you're interested in a first generation used one - I don't really use mine anymore

 

[matt holt]

Hmm I had not considered the BA

I’ve got one. It’s clean and transparent, but needs a HPF. Works really well with my old GK cab. Perhaps underpowered for a lot of applications unless paired with a powered cab. PM me if you're interested in a first generation used one - I don't really use mine anymore

In regards to the HPF, I assumed it has a 30hz HPF baked in, the way most amps do nowadays. Is that not the case?

 

[JBarz]

Hmm I had not considered the BA


In regards to the HPF, I assumed it has a 30hz HPF baked in, the way most amps do nowadays. Is that not the case?

Back when I was a PJB dealer, none of their stuff had HPF, opting instead have kind of lamely implemented limiter — but I don’t know about their current offerings. I played a show last night on my Suitcase amp with a Realist sans my usual external HPF and holy moly was that low end boomy and muddy AF. In future I shan’t leave home without it.

 

[matt holt]

Back when I was a PJB dealer, none of their stuff had HPF, opting instead have kind of lamely implemented limiter — but I don’t know about their current offerings. I played a show last night on my Suitcase amp with a Realist sans my usual external HPF and holy moly was that low end boomy and muddy AF. In future I shan’t leave home without it.

Ok just downloaded the manual and checked the specs, and the BP-200 has FR range of 16hz to 20khz, so no HPF there. that definitely takes it out of the running for this particular application. I'm glad I posted this thread, this is why I love TB!

If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know! Right now the three front runners are the Traynor, the GK MB200, and possibly the TC BAM (although the lack of speakonconnection there IS a bit of a turn-off).

 

[Earl]

Back when I was a PJB dealer, none of their stuff had HPF, opting instead have kind of lamely implemented limiter — but I don’t know about their current offerings. I played a show last night on my Suitcase amp with a Realist sans my usual external HPF and holy moly was that low end boomy and muddy AF. In future I shan’t leave home without it.

Yeah even my Double Four sounds much better with an HPF!

 

[bassically_eli]

Ok just downloaded the manual and checked the specs, and the BP-200 has FR range of 16hz to 20khz, so no HPF there. that definitely takes it out of the running for this particular application. I'm glad I posted this thread, this is why I love TB!

If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know! Right now the three front runners are the Traynor, the GK MB200, and possibly the TC BAM (although the lack of speakonconnection there IS a bit of a turn-off).

TC also makes the BH250, which is possibly the second most affordable option next to the BAM. It has an interesting 3-band EQ as well as the tone print feature and a speakon connector. The EQ is interesting because the frequency center is different depending on whether you're boosting or cutting. Also has aux in an headphones jack. I don't remember what its input impedance is, so you might want to check that if you're using a piezo without a preamp.

You might also want to consider the GR bass heads. If you want more power in about the same size, the Warwick LWA 500 is nice--with a few caveats such as a very low input impedance, I can give more details if you're curious. Warwick is also making an amp now that appears to be a clone of the BAM, which is itself very similar to the Trace Elliott Elf, all three of which only have a 1/4” speaker out

Edit: The BH250's input impedance is listed as 500 kOhm

 

[matt holt]

TC also makes the BH250, which is possibly the second most affordable option next to the BAM. It has an interesting 3-band EQ as well as the tone print feature and a speakon connector. The EQ is interesting because the frequency center is different depending on whether you're boosting or cutting. Also has aux in an headphones jack. I don't remember what its input impedance is, so you might want to check that if you're using a piezo without a preamp.

You might also want to consider the GR bass heads. If you want more power in about the same size, the Warwick LWA 500 is nice--with a few caveats such as a very low input impedance, I can give more details if you're curious. Warwick is also making an amp now that appears to be a clone of the BAM, which is itself very similar to the Trace Elliott Elf, all three of which only have a 1/4” speaker out

Edit: The BH250's input impedance is listed as 500 kOhm

So I'll admit I'm a little hesitant on the TC stuff, just because I have tried a number of their small combo amps for upright, and never liked them that much; perhaps through a higher-end cab it would be a different story, though.

The GR Mini One looks darn attractive; I was completely unaware of that company, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. It IS a little more spendy than I was hoping for: Since this is kind of a secondary rig, I'm trying not to spend TOO much, hoping to keep it under 4 bills. That's part of the reason the Magellan 350 isn't a prime contender; it's also a little wider than the MAS16, which I know would bug me, a bit overpowered for the cab, which would make me nervous. The GR doesn't at least suffer from the size issue. If I could find a used GR Mini One for under $500 I might go with that option. I'll have to do some looking!

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Back when I was a PJB dealer, none of their stuff had HPF, opting instead have kind of lamely implemented limiter — but I don’t know about their current offerings. I played a show last night on my Suitcase amp with a Realist sans my usual external HPF and holy moly was that low end boomy and muddy AF. In future I shan’t leave home without it.

I actually like the limiter on the Flightcase amps a lot but agree that the PJB amps need a HPF added to make them truly DB friendly. That thickness in their sound is a real bonus when you do have an external HPF, however. I think it’s what makes the upper registers speak with such fat authority with those amps.

 

[matt holt]

Just in case anyone ever wonders how the story ended;

I'm a sucker for closure.

 

[bassically_eli]

Nice!

(Uh oh, no one's ever taken my advice before )

 

[matt holt]

Nice!

(Uh oh, no one's ever taken my advice before )

No worries, the main decider was that the Traynor was the first one to come up in the classifieds. Also, it sounds pretty darn good; have not played it with other people yet, but I have a rehearsal tomorrow, so we will see how it goes.

 

[matt holt]

Quick follow-up, used the rig today for a jazz jam with a guitar player (just duo) and it was great. Obviously we were not super loud, but it definitely did what I wanted: In a situation where i probably could have gotten by just acoustically, it filled out and supported the sound of the bass so that I could use more nuance and less muscle. I didn't use any kind of preamp or buffer, just went straight into the amp. I also did very little EQ , just a slight nudge down on the high mids and treble. If we have been playing with drums I might not have even done that, as I find those frequencies help with articulation when you add cymbals into the mix.

So if you spend the big bucks on a MAS cab, and don't have enough left over for a boutique head, the Traynor is definitely something to consider.

 

[BobDeRosa]

Hmm I had not considered the BA


In regards to the HPF, I assumed it has a 30hz HPF baked in, the way most amps do nowadays. Is that not the case?

Possibly, but you might find that 30Hz is not enough. I set my an external HPF to around 75-80. I also use a Fishman Platinum Stage preamp/DI with presets at 35, 80, and 140. I set that to 80 as well. 35 is not enough, 140 is generally too much.

 

[Ric Vice]

Quick follow-up, used the rig today for a jazz jam with a guitar player (just duo) and it was great. Obviously we were not super loud, but it definitely did what I wanted: In a situation where i probably could have gotten by just acoustically, it filled out and supported the sound of the bass so that I could use more nuance and less muscle. I didn't use any kind of preamp or buffer, just went straight into the amp. I also did very little EQ , just a slight nudge down on the high mids and treble. If we have been playing with drums I might not have even done that, as I find those frequencies help with articulation when you add cymbals into the mix.

So if you spend the big bucks on a MAS cab, and don't have enough left over for a boutique head, the Traynor is definitely something to consider.

Yep, that's probably the most Hi/FI sounding micro rig you can get. I just opted for the whole Traynor SB 106, because it's a all in one easy carry that sounds really great. Using the MAS 1/6 would give you a significant
bump in sound quality. I just have two many MAS cabinets to justify getting another one.

 

[matt holt]

Possibly, but you might find that 30Hz is not enough. I set my an external HPF to around 75-80. I also use a Fishman Platinum Stage preamp/DI with presets at 35, 80, and 140. I set that to 80 as well. 35 is not enough, 140 is generally too much.

Definitely in agreement; for any situation where I need to really rely on amplification, I have a different rig: Headway EDB-2 (40hz HPF) into AI Clarus SL, and 1 or 2 MAS26 cabs, usually pole mounted. It sounds great, but boy is it a lot of stuff to haul, and it takes a while to get all set up.

The rig in this thread was intended to be a simple plug and play operation. I'd love it if I could find a micro head with a baked in 40 or 60hz hpf, but as I don't know of any, I'll live with 30hz for this particular rig.

The BP-200 goes all the way down to 16hz, though, which is a whole other can of worms

 

[Ric Vice]

The rig in this thread was intended to be a simple plug and play operation. I'd love it if I could find a micro head with a baked in 40 or 60hz hpf, but as I don't know of any, I'll live with 30hz for this particular rig.

The BP-200 goes all the way down to 16hz, though, which is a whole other can of worms

16 hz could create all kinds of issues, because any thing below 20 hz is I believe headed into the territory of infrasonic which can wreck

give your speaker a real workout and not in a good way.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

As far as I can remember 16 Hz is the fundamental of the lowest organ tone.