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Phil Jones cab

P

p-nut95

May 27, 2007
252
2
Philadelphia
#1
:confused:hey guys, recently I've been checking out phil jones cabs to accompany my 2x12 eden XLT. I was looking at the smaller 6x5 or around there. How are these cabs? Do they compete with aguilar, eden, bag end and so on? Another thing is in the description I occasionally see the word acoustic these aren't acoustic cabs are they? :smug:
 
#4
I tried Phil Jones a few times. Crazy warm, sweet, and smooth. Not much punch or volume. And to my ears, lack in highs. I would describe them as great for some quiet R&B or jazz, or studio work, but on a stage where you need to keep up with a somewhat loud drummer and a few other musicians, I would use something else.
 
#6
but then again said:
That's an interesting point which got me doing some maths.

The total surface area of 6x5" speakers comes to 117.8"
A 2x10" setup gives 157.05", and a 1x15" gives 176.68". So the 6x5" does have considerably less surface area and does indeed move less area. You'd need and 8x5" so match the 2x10, and a 9x5" to match the 1x15". So to match match a standard 1x15 + 2x10 rig, well that's a lot of speakers, 17 to be exact!

I note PJB to make a 9x5" cabinet which as stated matches a 1x15" for surface area, but I can't see how it is necessarily better as surely the cab itself it about the same size and weight! I guess the smaller cone is more articulate with a faster response, but I just don't see how it can get the big slow vibrations of a larger speaker necessary for low B string work.

So in answer to the OP question, I can't see that a 6x5" or even a bigger 9x5" is going to be a good match for a 2x10". I'd go with a traditional 1x15" if you want more low end throb!
Click to expand...
 
#7
p-nut95 said:
some has to have some experience with these cabs
Click to expand...

I have a 6b cabinet, which uses the noe drivers. The tone is great - I love the sound, but I have to agree that it doesn't have the punch and volume to keep up with a reasonably loud band. I tried out an Aguilar 112 in a store, and it seemed a good bit louder than the 6b, but that is not a direct A-B comparison with both cabs in the same room with the same head and bass.

Bob
 
#8
My Neo 6B EASILY keeps up with a loud blues band with a screaming harmonica, 2 lead guitarists, me and drums. Guitarists and harp were running 60w+ 2x12 or 4x10 tube amps. I run it with a Markbass LMII or F1 typically. The room is 45' x 35' with 15' ceilings. Bass doesn't go through the PA. I do this weekly - last night, I couldn't even stay in the room, it was so loud to my ears (when other bassists 'sat-in'.) The low 'B' was very powerful and the wind coming off the cabinet was flapping my pants when I played the 'B' and 'E' strings. I'm sure a Metal band is louder though, but damn, we sure weren't quiet. I chose the PJB tone over most other boutique cabs. IMHO. YMMV.
 
#9
Another thought - I hear my basses clearer on the PJB than with any other cabinet I've tried (and I've tried many). So its forcing me to sell off a lot of basses that I can now clearly hear - and decided aren't my sound. By the way, the 8B is nicer and the 12B is the king of cabs to my ears at this point (preliminary BG testing only on these bigger ones).
 
#11
macmrkt said:
My Neo 6B EASILY keeps up with a loud blues band with a screaming harmonica, 2 lead guitarists, me and drums. Guitarists and harp were running 60w+ 2x12 or 4x10 tube amps. I run it with a Markbass LMII or F1 typically. The room is 45' x 35' with 15' ceilings. Bass doesn't go through the PA. I do this weekly - last night, I couldn't even stay in the room, it was so loud to my ears (when other bassists 'sat-in'.) The low 'B' was very powerful and the wind coming off the cabinet was flapping my pants when I played the 'B' and 'E' strings. I'm sure a Metal band is louder though, but damn, we sure weren't quiet. I chose the PJB tone over most other boutique cabs. IMHO. YMMV.
Click to expand...

Well, I must be doing something wrong. I use the 6b with an M-300, and have trouble being heard. I hooked up the M-300 and 6b with a suitcase and 4b, so I had 14 x 5 and two amps, but it still wasn't as clear or nearly as loud as an Epifani UL 902c and one Epifani UL410 4 ohm. The rigs were placed side by side using the same bass, and it was in a house with a fairly strong drummer and a guitar player. We play a jazz/rock blend, not overly loud. All the amps and the bass were set flat. The two Phil Jones amps were at about 1:00 o'clock, and the Epifani wasn't even up to 9:00 o'clock.

I love the Phil Jones tone (as well as the Epifani tone) but if you any pointers to get more volume, I'd appreciate hearing them.

Bob
 
#12
Now...the PJB heads, that's another story. We are reviewing them in Bass Gear's first issue. And we'll be reviewing the Markbass LMII as well - not just listening, but electronic testing, to see what's watts. I'd say, try a Markbass LMII or F1 head...or your Epifani head with the PJB's.
 
#13
macmrkt said:
Now...the PJB heads, that's another story. We are reviewing them in Bass Gear's first issue. And we'll be reviewing the Markbass LMII as well - not just listening, but electronic testing, to see what's watts. I'd say, try a Markbass LMII or F1 head...or your Epifani head with the PJB's.
Click to expand...

I suggest you include WALTER WOODS in there as well....
Take Care,
Rich
 
#14
RColie said:
Well, I must be doing something wrong. I use the 6b with an M-300, and have trouble being heard. I hooked up the M-300 and 6b with a suitcase and 4b, so I had 14 x 5 and two amps, but it still wasn't as clear or nearly as loud as an Epifani UL 902c and one Epifani UL410 4 ohm. The rigs were placed side by side using the same bass, and it was in a house with a fairly strong drummer and a guitar player. We play a jazz/rock blend, not overly loud. All the amps and the bass were set flat. The two Phil Jones amps were at about 1:00 o'clock, and the Epifani wasn't even up to 9:00 o'clock.

I love the Phil Jones tone (as well as the Epifani tone) but if you any pointers to get more volume, I'd appreciate hearing them.

Bob
Click to expand...

Well, comparing that PJB stuff you were running to an Epifani 4x10 with the UL902, there is no way the PJB would keep up. You are putting serious wattage into a very efficient 4x10. I don't know what you were expecting, but speakerwise, you were running a smaller amount of surface area, with less efficient speakers, and less power, so it shouldn't be surprising.

The PJB setup that you are running is not an optimal comparison. The PJB stuff can get plenty loud with the right setup.
 
#15
Smallequestrian said:
Well, comparing that PJB stuff you were running to an Epifani 4x10 with the UL902, there is no way the PJB would keep up. You are putting serious wattage into a very efficient 4x10. I don't know what you were expecting, but speakerwise, you were running a smaller amount of surface area, with less efficient speakers, and less power, so it shouldn't be surprising.

The PJB setup that you are running is not an optimal comparison. The PJB stuff can get plenty loud with the right setup.
Click to expand...

Yes, I fully agree, however that is what I had at my disposal to compare. Probably a more fair comparison would be an M-500 with two 8bs vs. an Epifani UL502 and the UL410. The consensus seems to be that, in cone area, four 5" speakers is equivalent to one 10" speaker, so sixteen 5" speakers should be equivalent to four 10s. Using this comparison, the Epifani rig is less expensive and quite a bit lighter (just over half the weight of the Phil Jones rig).

Realizing that a suitcase, a 4b, an M-300 and a 6b is not an optimal rig, I would have thought that 600 plus watts and the equivalent of three and one-half 10" speakers would have had more output.

I have entered a subscription for Bass Gear Magazine, and I eagerly await the first issue to see how some of this equipment specs out!

Bob
 
#16
I have a briefcase, and it sound fabulous to my my ears. I play fretless, and I've run my fretless J with Labella Tapewounds...sounds great, and I've run it with DR sunbeams...still sounds great...it has bottom, top, and mid, and I can eq to suit in my practice area.
One thing I do know about the piranha drivers...they are power hungry little suckers!!! When you consider that 6 piranha drivers have just marginally more cone area than a single 12, and the piranhas are rated at 100WRMS each, makes you think that these lil devils want POWER!
That's my single complaint about he PJB speakers..too power thirsty...relatively low efficiency speakers. I guess an interesting contrast is the EA whizzy which is a very efficient design.
I think it would really be interesting for somebody (TOM BOWLUS, are you listening???) to feed known input levels into a PJB suitcase extension cab (4 non-neo speakers) and measure the audio output. Then repeat using the same level input and the same amplifier with an EA whizzy 10 (cone area on the PJB 4b ext cab is about 80sq inches, the whizzy 10 comes in at about 80sq inches as well). I suspect that the whizzy would be quite dramatically louder with the same input power. I love the sound of the whizzys almost as much as the PJB.
The other cabinet I'd love to see in this comparison would be a Fitzmaurice omni 10.5 with the deltalite neo driver
 
#17
My 6T and 9B cabs can get quite loud, but I'm using a PJB pre and Stewart 1.6 poweramp. Just played through the 9B alone last week with two guitars, a keyboard player, and a loud drummer with no problems. I think they handle low Bs quite well. They don't have some of the treble "sparkle" or sheen of some cabs, but have great high mids to my ear. I can hear actual notes better with my rig than anything else I've tried, but YMMV.

I probably wouldn't recommend pairing the 6T with your Eden cab though...the 6T is 12 ohms, which means it will get much less power than it should have. These cabs like a lot of power (and then can get plenty loud and still stay clean). I used to own a M500 head and wanted something louder for the cabs...it's power to weight (and cost) ratio was too low for me.

Marshall
 
#18
dlmarquez said:
I have a briefcase, and it sound fabulous to my my ears. I play fretless, and I've run my fretless J with Labella Tapewounds...sounds great, and I've run it with DR sunbeams...still sounds great...it has bottom, top, and mid, and I can eq to suit in my practice area.
One thing I do know about the piranha drivers...they are power hungry little suckers!!! When you consider that 6 piranha drivers have just marginally more cone area than a single 12, and the piranhas are rated at 100WRMS each, makes you think that these lil devils want POWER!
That's my single complaint about he PJB speakers..too power thirsty...relatively low efficiency speakers. I guess an interesting contrast is the EA whizzy which is a very efficient design.
I think it would really be interesting for somebody (TOM BOWLUS, are you listening???) to feed known input levels into a PJB suitcase extension cab (4 non-neo speakers) and measure the audio output. Then repeat using the same level input and the same amplifier with an EA whizzy 10 (cone area on the PJB 4b ext cab is about 80sq inches, the whizzy 10 comes in at about 80sq inches as well). I suspect that the whizzy would be quite dramatically louder with the same input power. I love the sound of the whizzys almost as much as the PJB.
The other cabinet I'd love to see in this comparison would be a Fitzmaurice omni 10.5 with the deltalite neo driver
Click to expand...

I used the suitcase with a 4b extension cab, and while I had the same volume concerns, I agree that the tone is fabulous. It really shines on the low B string as well. It sounds like my problem might be the need for more power as opposed to an SPL limit placed by the speakers.

I'd love to hear any other reactions / experiences with Phil Jones equipment.

Bob
 
#19
RColie said:
Yes, I fully agree, however that is what I had at my disposal to compare. Probably a more fair comparison would be an M-500 with two 8bs vs. an Epifani UL502 and the UL410. The consensus seems to be that, in cone area, four 5" speakers is equivalent to one 10" speaker, so sixteen 5" speakers should be equivalent to four 10s. Using this comparison, the Epifani rig is less expensive and quite a bit lighter (just over half the weight of the Phil Jones rig).

Realizing that a suitcase, a 4b, an M-300 and a 6b is not an optimal rig, I would have thought that 600 plus watts and the equivalent of three and one-half 10" speakers would have had more output.

I have entered a subscription for Bass Gear Magazine, and I eagerly await the first issue to see how some of this equipment specs out!

Bob
Click to expand...

Right, I don't think anybody would argue that the Phil Jones stuff is as light or cheap as certain rigs; that isn't the goal. The Phil Jones stuff has its own unique sound, that people, such as Macmrkt, may prefer. For those folks the weight and cost is not such an issue.

Nobody buys the PJB stuff because its a great deal, thats for sure.
 
#20
I have a 9B and a 6T and use the M-500 head. No complaints at all. Everything is clearer than anything I have ever used (and I used every brand at one point in time). Plenty of punch on any type of bass I use...sometimes you just have to adjust the EQ, or both of them. Never had any problem with volume, either.
 

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