Phil Lesh Appreciation Society: Enter the Philzone...

[walknbluez]

I've never used any of Ritter's string sets, but the Slick Rounds are a groundwound (like D'Addario Half Rounds). About any groundwound will get you close, but I prefer the Ken Smiths to the D'Addarios. GHS also makes Brite Flats - I've read here on Talkbass that GHS makes Ken Smith Slicks, they're just rebranded (and one has a tapered "B" string and one doesn't), and SIT makes Power Flats - all groundwounds. I want to grab a set of the SIT's to try with my next string order since they're a local company. Compression wounds are a similar flavor as well - Ken Smith Compressors, SIT Silencers, GHS Compression Wound, etc. - all will do a better Phil than rounds.

I'm currently using D'Addario Chrome flatwounds and then EQ some bass out and increase the treble a tad and then open up the tone control on my P bass and I can get a nice "woody" tone that way and still have some good low end.

 

[spacebassed]

The early graphite basses I've played felt great. The first ones were collaborations with Alembic in the mid-70s and there was a high end bass shop in Boston on Boylston St. for a while that had a few of them. They were way past my budget as a high-school kid, but I used to love going in there to play them. Looking back on it, they were very generous to let me do that considering I had no skills and no chance of buying one.

I wonder how it would sound to put graphite reinforcement into a Starfire. I've thought about getting an ebony board for my Starfire and that would be the time to do it, but I'm kind of at the "if it ain't broke" point with it these days. My favorite tone of Phil's Starfire was late '72 and it still had the original rosewood at that point.

I also think that the bass was always a point of interest for the band. There are descriptions of the very early days where they had a huge rubber subwoofer they got from some guy who made them in Oakland for DJs. It pretty much only reproduced one note but gave a lot more low end than any of the other bands had back then.

Those early necks also had a different weave to the graphite than the later ones, some say the timbre is slightly different as well.

I have a Walnut Starfire that needs a new truss rod and fingerboard. I think I'm going to have Michael Dolan do the work - I was going to do it myself but have since had some medical problems which prevent me from being able to do woodworking anymore. I'll be using ebony for the fretboard (no dots) and considered having graphite rods put in at the same time. I'd be interested to what it would do tonally and I think it would help eliminate any dead spots (I wish I knew if this bass had any dead spots, but it was broken when I got it). My '67 Starfire doesn't have any bad dead spots (just a couple slightly weaker spots on the "G"), but my newly acquired M85 has a couple bad ones on the "G" string (Eb and D). My '67 Starfire also has a fingerboard the feels and looks more like ebony than rosewood, I'm not sure what it is. If it is rosewood it's a very nice unique piece of rosewood.

Now Edwin, the question is... when are we gonna convince you to strip that finish off your Starfire?

 

[JohnnyBottom]

Nice. id like to join. Could feel comfortable in this club.
l play in Reflections in NJ. A Jerry tribute.
Played in mostly gd bands, and an Elvis show,


This is a great watch...Mike gordan explaining a cool phil inspired gig...
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my bands site ...
http://www.reflectionsband.net

jc

 

[MR PC]

You mean like this?

That is a really nice bass. I wouldn't change a thing, it must really sing! No, I meant if you had a stock Starfire right now, and wanted to go for those mods...say Hipshot hardware... ultralite tuners, Supertone Bridge/Tailpiece assembly...the whole after market parts industry was built around those early Alembic mods.

 

[spacebassed]

Nice. id like to join. Could feel comfortable in this club.
l play in Reflections in NJ. A Jerry tribute.
Played in mostly gd bands, and an Elvis show,


This is a great watch...Mike gordan explaining a cool phil inspired gig...
Invalid Link Removed

my bands site ...
http://www.reflectionsband.net

jc

Jerry AND Elvis - awesome!

The Jordanaires had a great bass player! And honestly, I've always wanted to hear a "Shakedown Street" with Elvis on vocals - after all, Donna Jean did sing some backup for Elvis at one point.

 

[StephenR]

Those early necks also had a different weave to the graphite than the later ones, some say the timbre is slightly different as well.

I have an '81 Alembic catalog here that has a full page color photo of the back of a Koa short-scale series 1 bass with a graphite neck. Can't see any weave at all in the photo, neck looks jet black. Of course the black finish may be entirely cosmetic and simply hides the weave. Judging by the neck on my 88 Modulus TBX (which is red not black) the epoxy used is translucent. Could be that the epoxy on the early ones was solid black and in later years translucent black.

From what I understand the graphite necks are expensive since they require lots of hand work to make. The layers of graphite and epoxy are fitted to the mold by hand. Stands to reason that there would have been periods of experimentation with different ways of layering the graphite. If all that was required was to pour liquid material in a mold it would have been a more cut and dry procedure. Best person to ask about this would be Geoff Gould. Perhaps changes to the style of weave were made to test how it affected stability?

Nice Starfire Edwin! I sold mine years ago. I don't feel comfortable playing basses with narrow necks anymore and had moved on to playing five-string pretty much exclusively by 1984 or so. Still wish I had it, though.

 

[sven kalmar]

and ron tutt played with elvis when he didnt work with garcia band.

 

[Bassman8416]

What makes you think he's running them passive, Bassman8416?

I based that on the Q-tuners guy saying it is total passive system. That doesn't mean Phil uses them passive...I reckon. Its all new to me.....the Q-tuner pickups.

 

[Dee-man]

Sign me up! Love all things Phil, including his new restaurant/jam space in San Rafael, CA called Terrapin Crossroads (probably mentioned in this thread already). He originally wanted to build a place in Fairfax, a groovy hippie town also in Marin, but even Phil became victim to the infamous Marin NIMBY crowd. As the crow flies, I think I only live a few miles from Phil but have thus far been unsuccessful channeling his musical talent my way.

 

[walknbluez]

Sign me up! Love all things Phil, including his new restaurant/jam space in San Rafael, CA called Terrapin Crossroads (probably mentioned in this thread already). He originally wanted to build a place in Fairfax, a groovy hippie town also in Marin, but even Phil became victim to the infamous Marin NIMBY crowd. As the crow flies, I think I only live a few miles from Phil but have thus far been unsuccessful channeling his musical talent my way.

Well lucky you! There is always something going on down at Terrapin Crossroads. I wish I didn't live two hours away!

 

[spacebassed]

and ron tutt played with elvis when he didnt work with garcia band.

That's right! I forgot about the Ron Tutt connection.

I based that on the Q-tuners guy saying it is total passive system. That doesn't mean Phil uses them passive...I reckon. Its all new to me.....the Q-tuner pickups.

I see. They probably meant that the pickups themselves are passive - unlike EMG's which are active - but you can still use an active preamp with them. A lot of Bartolini's are passive, but most people use an active preamp with them. That being said, I wonder what kind of preamp Phil is currently using?

 

[kentiki]

Does anyone know what bass by year Phil used. He was using the Guild the first time I saw them.

 

[spacebassed]

Does anyone know what bass by year Phil used. He was using the Guild the first time I saw them.

Which year are you questioning? I could type out an outline by year, but I'm not positive on the exact dates.

 

[spacebassed]

I have an '81 Alembic catalog here that has a full page color photo of the back of a Koa short-scale series 1 bass with a graphite neck. Can't see any weave at all in the photo, neck looks jet black. Of course the black finish may be entirely cosmetic and simply hides the weave. Judging by the neck on my 88 Modulus TBX (which is red not black) the epoxy used is translucent. Could be that the epoxy on the early ones was solid black and in later years translucent black.

From what I understand the graphite necks are expensive since they require lots of hand work to make. The layers of graphite and epoxy are fitted to the mold by hand. Stands to reason that there would have been periods of experimentation with different ways of layering the graphite. If all that was required was to pour liquid material in a mold it would have been a more cut and dry procedure. Best person to ask about this would be Geoff Gould. Perhaps changes to the style of weave were made to test how it affected stability?

Nice Starfire Edwin! I sold mine years ago. I don't feel comfortable playing basses with narrow necks anymore and had moved on to playing five-string pretty much exclusively by 1984 or so. Still wish I had it, though.

Here is a discussion of the different layouts:

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...and if you notice the early Modulus necks (like the "Bassstar") have a different weave than the KLD - or whatever they call it - weave that's still used today.

 

[spacebassed]

Did anybody else see this? A new Guild Starfire Bass?!?

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[StephenR]

Thanks for the link to the page on the Alembic site spacebassed. Couple of nice looking basses on the page, too.

Here is a shot of the back of my Quantum neck. Not sure which of the weaves this is.

I love my Quantum for the sound of the B-string and low weight but am not so into the narrow width of the neck anymore.

 

[spacebassed]

Thanks for the link to the page on the Alembic site spacebassed. Couple of nice looking basses on the page, too.

Here is a shot of the back of my Quantum neck. Not sure which of the weaves this is.

I love my Quantum for the sound of the B-string and low weight but am not so into the narrow width of the neck anymore.

Nice! That looks like the current "KLD" weave, that one was obviously made back when they would occasionally dye the resin used to lay up the neck to match the color of the bass. I wish I would've bought a Q6 TBX a few years back when I had the chance, the prices have gone up considerably since then, but in reality, it probably wouldn't be getting much use, my Guild short scales get most of my attention these days.

...and, for the record, Modulus still has the best "B" string in the business.

 

[StephenR]

I got my Quantum new in 1988. It was made for a trade show which is the reason for the red neck and color scheme. Would have preferred a figured wood top but I got an excellent deal on the bass.

 

[oldleftybass]

Mainly a guitar player, but I do have a bass or two. Been on the bus since late 60's- first show Woodstock, last show the Unbroken Chain breakout in Philly. "We want Phil! We want Phil!" Count me in.

 

[spacebassed]

Mainly a guitar player, but I do have a bass or two. Been on the bus since late 60's- first show Woodstock, last show the Unbroken Chain breakout in Philly. "We want Phil! We want Phil!" Count me in.

Well, Phil is a lefty too, so we'll let you in.