edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
He could be making the assertion based on his experience with non-fans. That seems reasonable. But it's still something I haven't encountered.
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Phil Lesh Appreciation Society: Enter the Philzone...
- Thread starter spacebassed
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He could be making the assertion based on his experience with non-fans. That seems reasonable. But it's still something I haven't encountered.
And to defend his statement he will say: "I didn't say that I detest anything!"
And he didn't.
I'm going to chalk the statement up to Alcohol or waking up on the wrong side.
Or too much exposure to music snobs playing violin and cello?
And he didn't.
I'm going to chalk the statement up to Alcohol or waking up on the wrong side.
Or too much exposure to music snobs playing violin and cello?
How do I join the Zone? Just started playing bass in a dead cover band so this is awesome!
I have a technical question if anyone is interested...
Since I have "faked" as much as I can I want some theory behind Lesh's playing. Any advice is cool.
My question though (I have read conflicting things): Does Phill tend to stick to the key of the song or does he play in the key of the chord he is playing over at that moment?
I have a technical question if anyone is interested...
Since I have "faked" as much as I can I want some theory behind Lesh's playing. Any advice is cool.
My question though (I have read conflicting things): Does Phill tend to stick to the key of the song or does he play in the key of the chord he is playing over at that moment?
Welcome really cool thread, there's lots of cool tech stuff on Phil if you try the search option
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
I love Phil instructing the drummers: Don't follow me!
(ie., not an extension of the kick drum, liable to go to places
on the spot and unpredictable)
I like that <big smile>
(ie., not an extension of the kick drum, liable to go to places
on the spot and unpredictable)
I like that <big smile>
Phil and Fodera !!
one of the greatest moments of my life-
thought you fellow Phil-Heads would dig it.
as Phil had been a fan of my orchestral composing and arranging for a few years at this point, i had been granted backstage access to numerous Garden shows in that period, placed on the guestlist by an old friend who worked closely with the Dead.
in fall of '93 i was invited, literally, onstage at a Garden show during intermission to show him my 36" fodera AJ-6, my brand-new baby which i received that week. after the first set i was summoned from backstage onto the stage (a stunning never-to-be-forgotten visual of 20,000 fellow heads milling around during half-time, all the house lights on full, and low-hanging clouds of vibey funk wisping around the Garden like a desert storm...).. Phil beckoned me over to stage right where the crew had set up a makeshift "tea room" as it was called, really just a small space boxed by black velour. you can see some cake, a production phone etc in the pic.
Phil asked questions about the electronics, liked the feel of the neck very much, and marveled at the overall fingerboard length. this is my main bass to this day.
it was a brief 2 minutes or so, but it remains one of life's great moments.
this shot was taken by my amazing girlfriend at the time and my best friend still.
now, if she and i could only find the shots she took of the 4-foot diameter duct tape ball (apparently a tradition periodically, the crew accumulated the used duct tape like a snowball rolled from a mountain top, getting larger as a tour went on...)
one of the greatest moments of my life-
thought you fellow Phil-Heads would dig it.
as Phil had been a fan of my orchestral composing and arranging for a few years at this point, i had been granted backstage access to numerous Garden shows in that period, placed on the guestlist by an old friend who worked closely with the Dead.
in fall of '93 i was invited, literally, onstage at a Garden show during intermission to show him my 36" fodera AJ-6, my brand-new baby which i received that week. after the first set i was summoned from backstage onto the stage (a stunning never-to-be-forgotten visual of 20,000 fellow heads milling around during half-time, all the house lights on full, and low-hanging clouds of vibey funk wisping around the Garden like a desert storm...).. Phil beckoned me over to stage right where the crew had set up a makeshift "tea room" as it was called, really just a small space boxed by black velour. you can see some cake, a production phone etc in the pic.
Phil asked questions about the electronics, liked the feel of the neck very much, and marveled at the overall fingerboard length. this is my main bass to this day.
it was a brief 2 minutes or so, but it remains one of life's great moments.
this shot was taken by my amazing girlfriend at the time and my best friend still.
now, if she and i could only find the shots she took of the 4-foot diameter duct tape ball (apparently a tradition periodically, the crew accumulated the used duct tape like a snowball rolled from a mountain top, getting larger as a tour went on...)
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Mixolydian, man....that's all I'm gonna say right now.
Cool, makes sense. Actually I am not far off since I have been basing lines and licks off 5ths and octaves. But thats a given to work almost always.
Thing is is we are getting close to like 40 songs. I am finding now that I am repeating licks between songs that share chords. Jack Straw and Eyes of the world are 2 different songs. But I caught myself playing the same lick over the common E/E7 chords. Hence why I am looking for a bit more to work with. It would becool to know something like Phil tends to also go back to the 4th a lot, or the 6th of the next chord progression or something along those lines (pun intended).
I just feel I need like another note or habit in there so I am not repeating things.
Thanks
Cool, makes sense. Actually I am not far off since I have been basing lines and licks off 5ths and octaves. But thats a given to work almost always.
Thing is is we are getting close to like 40 songs. I am finding now that I am repeating licks between songs that share chords. Jack Straw and Eyes of the world are 2 different songs. But I caught myself playing the same lick over the common E/E7 chords. Hence why I am looking for a bit more to work with. It would becool to know something like Phil tends to also go back to the 4th a lot, or the 6th of the next chord progression or something along those lines (pun intended).
I just feel I need like another note or habit in there so I am not repeating things.
Thanks
Transcribe. Transcribe. Transcribe. It will show you what he's doing and why it sounds the way it does within the Dead context. Grow your ears. Sound first, theory later.
Thing is that is a great idea over the next 20 years of my life. Not sure that is going to help anytime soon though. You are talking about transcribing hundreds of versions of hundreds of songs. Yeah, maybe in a decade I can do an exact immitation of Lesh. Unfortunately though I get a week at most to learn a song but usually learning on the fly. Long term I think both ways are needed. However just not realistic to transcribe and reverse engineer and study even just the few hundred versions of one song by this Friday.
Also consider the guys I play with started a couple months before me. So I kinda need something of a cheat sheet, so to speak, until I catch up to them and have the luxury of time.
Also consider the guys I play with started a couple months before me. So I kinda need something of a cheat sheet, so to speak, until I catch up to them and have the luxury of time.
No, take a single verse of a single version of a single song (Truckin', perhaps) and learn it note for note (you don't need to notate it). Play it over and over and over, until you can hear it and play it in your sleep. You will be amazed how much that will teach you and what insights it will open into Phil's style. And, anyway, to hell with Phil Lesh; this is where you start to take the steps to become the bass player YOU want to be.
In over 30 years of listening to the Dead, I have listened very intently to Phil's style, but never once have I tried to learn his lines. Sure, I've learned a bunch of Dead tunes and it's hard not to play Not Fade Away or Lovelight using lines that are similar to or almost identical to Phil's.
But my point is that I absorbed his style more through listening than through playing. His style is very singularly characteristic of himself and, as a result, very personal. I have no desire to play just like Phil, but I am glad to have been able to incorporate some of his philosophical approaches to playing bass into my own style.
Here are a few of my observations:
1. When you expect me to anchor, I may or may not.
2. When you expect me to push the boundaries, I may or may not.
3. When I feel the band is ready to make that leap to reach the apex of a song, I will cue you with a musical line that diverges from what I've been playing and it will happen.
4. Know exactly where the 1 is at all times and avoid it whenever you feel like it or hammer it mercilessly.
5. Play roots on weak beats (e.g., 2 and 4) and/or on the off-beat.
6. Never abandon a melodic approach; even repeated notes and octaves can be made melodic.
7. Don't so much focus on locking in with other band members such as the drums or rhythm guitar; rather play in in a style that constructs a singular framework that all band members can latch onto in their own preferred manner.
8. Use non-roots and non-chord tones as anchor points, pedals, and as pivots.
9. Descending runs on bass are far more effective at getting your band to up the energy level than are ascending runs. The runs may be linear and scalar (e.g., F# E D C# B A G# to resolve to E Mixolydian - preferably start the run on a beat other than 1), or staggered and scalar (e.g., G# E F# D B C# B F# G# D to E Mixo; again starting on a beat other than 1). Be sure to hammer a full four string E to finish that run!
10. Throw all this out the window and just play.
But my point is that I absorbed his style more through listening than through playing. His style is very singularly characteristic of himself and, as a result, very personal. I have no desire to play just like Phil, but I am glad to have been able to incorporate some of his philosophical approaches to playing bass into my own style.
Here are a few of my observations:
1. When you expect me to anchor, I may or may not.
2. When you expect me to push the boundaries, I may or may not.
3. When I feel the band is ready to make that leap to reach the apex of a song, I will cue you with a musical line that diverges from what I've been playing and it will happen.
4. Know exactly where the 1 is at all times and avoid it whenever you feel like it or hammer it mercilessly.
5. Play roots on weak beats (e.g., 2 and 4) and/or on the off-beat.
6. Never abandon a melodic approach; even repeated notes and octaves can be made melodic.
7. Don't so much focus on locking in with other band members such as the drums or rhythm guitar; rather play in in a style that constructs a singular framework that all band members can latch onto in their own preferred manner.
8. Use non-roots and non-chord tones as anchor points, pedals, and as pivots.
9. Descending runs on bass are far more effective at getting your band to up the energy level than are ascending runs. The runs may be linear and scalar (e.g., F# E D C# B A G# to resolve to E Mixolydian - preferably start the run on a beat other than 1), or staggered and scalar (e.g., G# E F# D B C# B F# G# D to E Mixo; again starting on a beat other than 1). Be sure to hammer a full four string E to finish that run!
10. Throw all this out the window and just play.
Best post ever! Congrats!
I definitely like to play Dead tunes but have never tried to cop Phil's licks as much as play the song.
Thanks all, some good feedback!
Just to clarify what I was asking though, I have no intentions of copying Phill. I was just looking for some pointers on how to be more Phill-like in the context of a new bass player that happens to playing dead covers (so I am not copying/repeating myself).
In all actuality some of Phill's style I (and band agrees) we dont like. Some stuff seems to come out better in "my style" such as I prefer to play lines closer to standard country lines on the cowboy/bluegrass type songs which Phill avoids with a passion. Really most all my playing is me because I don't have time to copy Phill. Generally our guitarist will just start playing something and I have to figure it out on the spot. But, it is good to have a couple things to work with so it still can pass as a good dead cover.
I think the off timing advice is good as I have not experimented with that much. Even the same lick played on a different timing would be totally different.
Seriously though thanks again for all the suggestions
Just to clarify what I was asking though, I have no intentions of copying Phill. I was just looking for some pointers on how to be more Phill-like in the context of a new bass player that happens to playing dead covers (so I am not copying/repeating myself).
In all actuality some of Phill's style I (and band agrees) we dont like. Some stuff seems to come out better in "my style" such as I prefer to play lines closer to standard country lines on the cowboy/bluegrass type songs which Phill avoids with a passion. Really most all my playing is me because I don't have time to copy Phill. Generally our guitarist will just start playing something and I have to figure it out on the spot. But, it is good to have a couple things to work with so it still can pass as a good dead cover.
I think the off timing advice is good as I have not experimented with that much. Even the same lick played on a different timing would be totally different.
Seriously though thanks again for all the suggestions
Did anyone else do the Dead Movie Meet Up last night?
I went and saw it. Very cool. It was concert and lots of audience footage from 1972, just after Europe. The dead were playing a benefit for a dairy farm. Phil sounded pretty great. He was playing the guild starfire with all the mods. Had 6 showman amps behind him, and what looked like a couple of 215 cabs behind him. I think I also spotted a bass cab over on the other side of the stage as well.
He sounded great. That fender tone is pretty cool.
Here is a preview from the movie... (warning: nude hippies,, NSFW)
I went and saw it. Very cool. It was concert and lots of audience footage from 1972, just after Europe. The dead were playing a benefit for a dairy farm. Phil sounded pretty great. He was playing the guild starfire with all the mods. Had 6 showman amps behind him, and what looked like a couple of 215 cabs behind him. I think I also spotted a bass cab over on the other side of the stage as well.
He sounded great. That fender tone is pretty cool.
Here is a preview from the movie... (warning: nude hippies,, NSFW)
Yes, saw it in Tucson, bunch of old folks out in the audience, couple of folks couldn't help themselves and were dancing in the aisles.
That is my favorite Phil tone of any of his basses including the Alembics, anybody who says Lesh is an understated bass player clearing has no understanding on how his counterpoint with Garcia and Weir works
That is my favorite Phil tone of any of his basses including the Alembics, anybody who says Lesh is an understated bass player clearing has no understanding on how his counterpoint with Garcia and Weir works
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
Not just any dairy farm, but the Kesey family farm. Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters were an integral part of the genesis of the Grateful Dead. To this day, you can get Nancy's Yogurt and Kefir, which is the same company.
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