Piccolo Bass Club!!

[Muddytone]

[arise thread ...]
Hello fellow top-end low-enders

Built this weird thing the other day and I'm wondering if it counts as a piccolo. I mostly play BEAD, and have basses better than I could build, I had some spare parts after a recent project so built something I don't have, going as far with the trebly brightness thing as I could in as many ways as I could think of. I've since read about these piccolo basses and guess that's what I've made - that or a guitar with a bass neck. Here it is:

It's a 34" scale bass neck from a cheap ("Glarry" - new name to me too) left handed bass (needed half the body, hardware and electronics for another creation) with the A(.044"), D(26), G(18) and top B(13) strings from a Baritone set tuned in E, an octave up, but a little loose and could go up to at least F. The pickup's from a Squier Mustang guitar (bridge position) that I'd replaced because it was far too twangy, and it is on rails: I can slide it from really close to the neck to the bridge, angle it, turn it upside down if I want. The tone pot is a B500k with a 0.33Nf capacitor (about a sixth of a stock P-Bass) for tons of treble retention. I can give more details if anyone is interested but I have to stress I'm NO luthier, carpenter nor engineer, just a bored bass player. This is a prototype!

And it sounds good. I play it with a pick with those skinny strings. A little dulcimer-like (I hear the piano mentioned above), it drinks up reverb and loves all kinds of wobbly modulation on a clean(ish) tone, sounds kinda like a strat through a tube screamer, and rages through fuzz into a BDDI. Moving the pickup way down next to the bridge really spanks the brightness and gives the most range on the tone pot, but makes palm muting etc. difficult, and things are still pretty - umm - pretty with the pickup up by the neck.

Seems to me piccolo bass is still pretty niche. It's a lot of fun and bound to upset a lot of guitar players. I hope we can keep it as a bit of a secret weapon for a while.

 

[Indiedog]

ARISE, indeed!

What a cool instrument…thanks for the post!!

Through niche (as you said), I think this thread is too good to let die. Perhaps we can get more chit chat on pic basses once more. I find their use fascinating.

Random, wacky thought:
Has anyone encountered a track that has both pic bass AND a Nashville tuning guitar? All one would have to do is to add a baritone guitar to have a unique combo of unexpected instruments.

 

[Cal03]

I love old threads being revived!

Don't know if this counts, but I had my sixer tuned in fifths (C1 - B3) for a while. The top four strings subsumed the range of an EADG piccolo string set while the bottom two strings go almost as low as BEAD, so it probably belongs in the extended range category rather than piccolo. I used a custom Kalium string set, gauges here if anyone's interested.

I really liked the tone of the top two strings, dulcimer and piano-esque as mentioned above. I even preferred it to my Squier Tele, so much so that I've actually used it in a guitar role with another bassist in a band setting. They played a 4-string EADG and held down the low end while I played chords and some melodic lines above. It's just silly thinking how I could still play lower than the other bassist while playing above them.

I've since returned the sixer back to BEADGC, having all that range was fun and all but it got a bit too much. I have two fivers tuned CGDAE, so that's still a lot of high range for a bass, though more in the "tenor" bass or baritone guitar range rather than piccolo bass.

 

[Indiedog]

I love old threads being revived!

Don't know if this counts, but I had my sixer tuned in fifths (C1 - B3) for a while. The top four strings subsumed the range of an EADG piccolo string set while the bottom two strings go almost as low as BEAD, so it probably belongs in the extended range category rather than piccolo. I used a custom Kalium string set, gauges here if anyone's interested.

I really liked the tone of the top two strings, dulcimer and piano-esque as mentioned above. I even preferred it to my Squier Tele, so much so that I've actually used it in a guitar role with another bassist in a band setting. They played a 4-string EADG and held down the low end while I played chords and some melodic lines above. It's just silly thinking how I could still play lower than the other bassist while playing above them.

I've since returned the sixer back to BEADGC, having all that range was fun and all but it got a bit too much. I have two fivers tuned CGDAE, so that's still a lot of high range for a bass, though more in the "tenor" bass or baritone guitar range rather than piccolo bass.

My, those are very clever experimentations! I am intrigued.

 

[bassbrad]

My piccolo basses are all mad at me for sitting on their stands while I play my other basses and tinker with synths. Lately when I need those higher sounds I will use a pitch shifter or my Gibson EB14 5 string with a Hi C.

 

[TrustRod]

Here's my two piccolos. The red one was the experiment and has a 22" scale, the blue one was made after I learned a few more things and has a 26.5" scale. Both are fully hollow with removable backs and a decent amount of acoustic volume so I can practice without an amp.

Tuned BEADG one octave up using a 7 string guitar set minus the 2 top strings.

They sound like guitars but the fingering is the same as a 5 string bass.

 

[Muddytone]

Really beautiful instruments!
Have to say I don't like the term piccolo bass; piccolo is an instrument not a register (though it is Italian for little, or baby), a bass piccolo would look like a flute the size of a digeridoo. I like Cal03's "Tenor Bass" a lot better. Quite like "Alto Bass" as well. But it is what is ...

 

[Cal03]

Taxonomy for bass guitar is already tricky given that it's actually a contrabass register instrument, with naming conventions distinct from a regular guitar. The term "piccolo" can be used for the highest-pitched member of an instrument family (piccolo trumpet for example), though admittedly the terms piccolo bass or tenor bass sound a bit silly. But it's got a commonly accepted meaning among bass players so I use them as well.

If piccolo bass generally refers to an octave higher than EADG standard, then tenor bass would be the gap in between, like ADCG (top 4 strings of a sixer). That one in particular is commonly called tenor tuning, and I think GDAE (G1 - E3) also fits the moniker.

Here's my two piccolos. The red one was the experiment and has a 22" scale, the blue one was made after I learned a few more things and has a 26.5" scale. Both are fully hollow with removable backs and a decent amount of acoustic volume so I can practice without an amp.

Tuned BEADG one octave up using a 7 string guitar set minus the 2 top strings.

They sound like guitars but the fingering is the same as a 5 string bass.

View attachment 4863565

Gorgeous piccolos! I really like the idea of a 5-string piccolo, sometimes guitar feels too crowded with 6 strings and the narrow string spacing. Also convenient to keep the perfect fourths tuning.

 

[Joshua Pickenpaugh]

I like to call the EADG tuning "Piccolo", and the ADGC tuning "Super Piccolo".

6 of one, half a dozen of the other, I guess!

 

[TrustRod]

The Jumbo Shrimp Conundrum

 

[bassbrad]

Here's my two piccolos. The red one was the experiment and has a 22" scale, the blue one was made after I learned a few more things and has a 26.5" scale. Both are fully hollow with removable backs and a decent amount of acoustic volume so I can practice without an amp.

Tuned BEADG one octave up using a 7 string guitar set minus the 2 top strings.

They sound like guitars but the fingering is the same as a 5 string bass.

View attachment 4863565

I really dig those builds and your rather unique design decisions.

 

[TrustRod]

Thanks. A big part of this design was to have something I'm calling couch volume. Loud enough to be heard without an amp or playing hard but still quiet enough to keep apartment neighbors happy. The backs sit 1/8" off the body so the gap acts like a soundhole. and the tops are 1/4" thick so it's very strong yet still flexable enough to make noise. The nut and tailpiece were an exercise in seeing how simple and cheap I can be.

The Jaguar shape is the current hot Fender style and I was rather pleased how well it works with an acoustic style headstock.



The pickups are mounted from the backside so no screws show through, something I nabbed from Jerry Jones.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Wouldn't a six,seven,or an eight string bass qualify as piccolo?
Or even a sixer tuned in fifths?
The extended upper range or each certainly covers much of the piccolo territory.

 

[Joshua Pickenpaugh]

Wouldn't a six,seven,or an eight string bass qualify as piccolo?
Or even a sixer tuned in fifths?
The extended upper range or each certainly covers much of the piccolo territory.

My view of a full-on piccolo bass is a bass who's entire range is dedicated wholly the upper register (read: 8ve and higher than a "normal" 4-string) and can't really function as a typical bass (without, maybe, an Octave pedal).

My opinion is that the upper registers of an extended-range bass would only touch upon the lower register of a piccolo bass. therefore not exactly what is deemed a true piccolo bass.

All my own opinions. Great conversation we're starting here....

 

[Watchootognbout]

My opinion is that the upper registers of an extended-range bass would only touch upon the lower register of a piccolo bass. therefore not exactly what is deemed a true piccolo bass.

All my own opinions. Great conversation we're starting here....

Somehow that doesn't seem right.

You're saying that the 24th fret C on my 24 fret sixer is lower that the lowest note of a piccolo bass?
I thought that piccolo tuning is ONE octave higher than standard bass tuning.

 

[HaphAsSard]

My opinion is that the upper registers of an extended-range bass would only touch upon the lower register of a piccolo bass. therefore not exactly what is deemed a true piccolo bass.

You're saying that the 24th fret C on my 24 fret sixer is lower that the lowest note of a piccolo bass?
I thought that piccolo tuning is ONE octave higher than standard bass tuning.

You both overstated your respective cases. The register of a piccolo and that of a standard-tuned 6-string bass have a great deal of overlap, except for the former having four (if it has 20 frets) to seven notes (if it also has 24 frets) more than the former. (Things do change if the 6-stringer is tuned in fifths, or with a 7-string bass; they also do, of course, if one plays in octave-up ADGC tuning, as Josh does with his "super-piccolo".)
Also, if comparisons go beyond the EAD strings of the piccolo and the DGC strings of the sixer, tone in the highest registers of both instruments is obviously different: in the former case it will actually be fuller, with notes played on a thicker string and the relative position of the pickups shifted closer to the center of vibration of the string.

I don't play a piccolo, but to me the crucial distinction between one and an ERB is that the piccolo has
- the playability of a normal four-banger (I expect this to be a big deal for someone who's not into sixers for reasons of ergonomy)
- as Josh pointed out, an inbuilt inability to cover the low end role (save for very sparse arrangements, wherever a standard guitar also would be enough), which informs the whole approach. It is inherently solo/comping-oriented - all the time, not just for (albeit long) forays like the six.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Also, if comparisons go beyond the EAD strings of the piccolo and the DGC strings of the sixer, tone in the highest registers of both instruments is obviously different: in the former case it will actually be fuller, with notes played on a thicker string and the relative position of the pickups shifted closer to the center of vibration of the string.

Dash added: I meant "latter", dagnabbit!

 

[bassbrad]

Wikipedia to the rescue on piccolo bass but this article is I'm afraid not entirely accurate as Eldee Young, Percy Heath and Ray Brown were using Kay cello/basses in the sixties.

Piccolo bass - Wikipedia

17 Amazing Piccolo Bass Players You Should Know About in 2022

 

[Joshua Pickenpaugh]

You're saying that the 24th fret C on my 24 fret sixer is lower that the lowest note of a piccolo bass?
I thought that piccolo tuning is ONE octave higher than standard bass tuning.

You're right; my use of "would only touch upon" isn't entirely accurate, since past the 12th fret on a standard 4 is the first 12 frets on a piccolo. Not enough coffee that morning, I guess!

I guess my thinking was more about tone of chords played past the 12th fret on a standard vs. piccolo, in that (in my experience) the piccolo is a bit clearer than that of a standard due to string thickness, which @HaphAsSard states.

I don't play a piccolo, but to me the crucial distinction between one and an ERB is that the piccolo has
- the playability of a normal four-banger (I expect this to be a big deal for someone who's not into sixers for reasons of ergonomy)

I think this is another important point: I've had a few people ask me "why don't you just play guitar?", in which my response is guitar is a completely different instrument. It's smaller, more strings, different tuning, different electronics, and played with a pick (for which I rarely play). It's the ability for a bassist to exist within another tonal register without changing almost anything.

 

[Starthief]

I like to think of my MÜB Miezo 18 (BEADG an octave above a regular 5, or ADGCF when the mood strikes me) as a "cello range" instrument rather than "piccolo."