Piccolo Bass Club!!

[meej]

I personally use guitar strings, they are perfect length, personally single Elixir Nanoweb ones.

Here is a sample of my 4 string GSRM20B Mikro Bass, tuned in B standard tuning (that is one octave about the lower 4 strings of a 6 string bass in regular B standard tuning), with a healthy portion of overdrive and tape delay added:
View attachment 7107722

And there are much worse thing to be addicted to...

Oh I see. I see lots of people using the GHS piccolo strings. I’m just wondering if it’s possible to string these strings onto my short scale Ibanez which is 28 scale length ? Cause they’re designed for long/regular scale. Never stringed anything but a bass before, so I’m unsure on how the tension changes are different? Or less important? I’m lost.

Here’s a link to the specific set of strings i’m on about. Amazon.co.uk
Thanks to anyone that can help me out here!

 

[Ritter667]

Oh I see. I see lots of people using the GHS piccolo strings. I’m just wondering if it’s possible to string these strings onto my short scale Ibanez which is 28 scale length ? Cause they’re designed for long/regular scale. Never stringed anything but a bass before, so I’m unsure on how the tension changes are different? Or less important? I’m lost.

Here’s a link to the specific set of strings i’m on about. Amazon.co.uk
Thanks to anyone that can help me out here!

Tension will obviously be lower on a 28.6" scale length instrument than on full scale 34" scale length bass, using the same strings.

But what many people do not think about it, that the shorter scale length the stiffer/less flexible the strings will also be, so I found it somewhat equals up.

You will have to adjust your technique though and pluck lighter, but to me that is no issue.

As of using long scale strength on a shorter scale instrument, as long as they are roundwound or plain strings is really no issue, you just cut them to length, roundwounds you should make an abrupt 90 degree bend on the string though before the cut, to insure the wound won't wind up, flatwound strings you shouldn't cut to size though, as you'd likely ruing the strings.

I never had issues with cutting rouncdwound strings to size, as long as you make sure to make that abrupt bend before the cut.

This is a great string tension calculator: Guitar Tension Calculator

It uses D'Addario string tension, which will vary a bit depending on specific construction, but it still ought to be useable to determine the ballpark tension of most strings, and at least get an idea of what tension we are talking about.

Piccolo strings are thinner gauge, but they are also tuned considerably higher, which means that they doesn't necessarily have lower tension than regular bass strings.

For B standard, all fourths, tuning (that is exactly one octave higher than the lower 4 strings of a 5 or 6 string bass in regular B tuning), I personally use gauge: .068 - .052 - .038 - .028 guitar strings, and that works really well for me.

Tension wise this is a very tension balanced set, but overall tension wise sits somewhere right between what a gauge .100 to .045 set and a gauge .095 to .040 set would be in in regular 4 string bass E standard tuning would be.

 

[meej]

Tension will obviously be lower on a 28.6" scale length instrument than on full scale 34" scale length bass, using the same strings.

But what many people do not think about it, that the shorter scale length the stiffer/less flexible the strings will also be, so I found it somewhat equals up.

You will have to adjust your technique though and pluck lighter, but to me that is no issue.

As of using long scale strength on a shorter scale instrument, as long as they are roundwound or plain strings is really no issue, you just cut them to length, roundwounds you should make an abrupt 90 degree bend on the string though before the cut, to insure the wound won't wind up, flatwound strings you shouldn't cut to size though, as you'd likely ruing the strings.

I never had issues with cutting rouncdwound strings to size, as long as you make sure to make that abrupt bend before the cut.

This is a great string tension calculator: Guitar Tension Calculator

It uses D'Addario string tension, which will vary a bit depending on specific construction, but it still ought to be useable to determine the ballpark tension of most strings, and at least get an idea of what tension we are talking about.

Piccolo strings are thinner gauge, but they are also tuned considerably higher, which means that they doesn't necessarily have lower tension than regular bass strings.

For B standard, all fourths, tuning (that is exactly one octave higher than the lower 4 strings of a 5 or 6 string bass in regular B tuning), I personally use gauge: .068 - .052 - .038 - .028 guitar strings, and that works really well for me.

Tension wise this is a very tension balanced set, but overall tension wise sits somewhere right between what a gauge .100 to .045 set and a gauge .095 to .040 set would be in in regular 4 string bass E standard tuning would be.

Thanks! I ended up buying a set of guitar strings. Gonna set it up tomorrow.

 

[lug]

I used regular guitar strings on my EBO, sounded great. Will tend to be a bit stiffer than on a guitar but the sustain is great!

 

[Ritter667]

My 5 string 28.6" scale Ibanez GSRM25 Mikro Bass, equipped with Elixir Nanoweb guitar strings of the gauges .080 - .062 - .046 - .036 - .026, and tuned to G#1 standard tuning, that is G#1 - C#2 - F#2 - B2 - E3, so again a tenor bass tuning, rather than piccolo:
View attachment 7080160

New noodle samples from this bass, with a slightly changed setup since the last sample I posted in this thread of it:

I should probably add that I have an always on 1 octave up effect going on as part as my basic "clean" tone (which isn't really clean at all), from a custom Toneprint I made myself, loaded on my Sub'N'Up Mini, made to approximate and effect somewhat similar to that of an 8 string bass.

 

[MrAB4003]

I'm thinking about getting a second piccolo bass because my Squier Jazz Bass is uncomfortable to play chords with. I converted my Jazz Bass into my piccolo bass as an experiment a few years ago and it worked well for the time. But lately, I'm feeling pain in my left hand when playing chords (especially root-fifth-octave power chords) closer to the nut. My Squier's 34" scale neck is too long for this application, but it works great as a regular bass.

I played a new Gretsch Streamliner short scale bass in GC today and it was amazing! I tried it at the effects table (they had an MXR Blue Poly Octave and I isolated the +1 octave) to simulate a piccolo bass and it was a surreal experience! The Poly Octave sounded slightly digital, but it was not bad. I can only imagine how much better that bass will sound with actual piccolo strings on it.

I then ventured to add in some distortion, phaser, and a few other effects that I don't normally use and I was having a blast! I didn't care if I got any strange looks from people seeing me shred on that bass. The phaser was so great that I'm thinking about buying an MXR Phase 90 pedal too!

Does anyone have any experience with the Gretsch Streamliner (or similar Junior Jet) as piccolo basses?

Streamliner™ Jet™ Club Bass Single-Cut, Laurel Fingerboard, Vintage White

Bass instruments are the tonal and rhythmic backbone of any musical group. Prized for their rich, clear, powerful sound, Gretsch basses are the ultimate foundation for any musical style.

gretschguitars.com

 

[lug]

I'm thinking about getting a second piccolo bass because my Squier Jazz Bass is uncomfortable to play chords with. I converted my Jazz Bass into my piccolo bass as an experiment a few years ago and it worked well for the time. But lately, I'm feeling pain in my left hand when playing chords (especially root-fifth-octave power chords) closer to the nut. My Squier's 34" scale neck is too long for this application, but it works great as a regular bass.

I played a new Gretsch Streamliner short scale bass in GC today and it was amazing! I tried it at the effects table (they had an MXR Blue Poly Octave and I isolated the +1 octave) to simulate a piccolo bass and it was a surreal experience! The Poly Octave sounded slightly digital, but it was not bad. I can only imagine how much better that bass will sound with actual piccolo strings on it.

I then ventured to add in some distortion, phaser, and a few other effects that I don't normally use and I was having a blast! I didn't care if I got any strange looks from people seeing me shred on that bass. The phaser was so great that I'm thinking about buying an MXR Phase 90 pedal too!

Does anyone have any experience with the Gretsch Streamliner (or similar Junior Jet) as piccolo basses?

Streamliner™ Jet™ Club Bass Single-Cut, Laurel Fingerboard, Vintage White

Bass instruments are the tonal and rhythmic backbone of any musical group. Prized for their rich, clear, powerful sound, Gretsch basses are the ultimate foundation for any musical style.

gretschguitars.com

I've always felt short scale basses are a better fit for piccolo applications. Easier to get a string tension that won't kill ya.

 

[bassbrad]

One of my favorite piccolo basses is a Harmony H22B great for jazz and blues tones.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I converted my Jazz Bass into my piccolo bass as an experiment a few years ago and it worked well for the time. But lately, I'm feeling pain in my left hand when playing chords (especially root-fifth-octave power chords) closer to the nut. My Squier's 34" scale neck is too long for this application, but it works great as a regular bass.

Unless you already have it in DGCF, tuning it that way
(from the relevant thread, I remember you being familiar with D standard)
is the cheapest solution.

 

[MrAB4003]

Unless you already have it in DGCF, tuning it that way
(from the relevant thread, I remember you being familiar with D standard)
is the cheapest solution.

You're right in that I do tune all my basses to D Standard, including my piccolo bass. But my hand still hurts even with the looser string tension of D Standard. It's more of a scale / left hand ergonomics issue for me. I learned the hard way that long scale basses don't work well in a piccolo application simply because the frets are too far apart for playing chords.

I learned how to play bass on my Squier Jazz because it's my first ever bass. So that got me familiar with a 34" scale from the beginning, just in a "traditional" bass application. I remember thinking that the frets were too far apart for me to play a simple 1-3-5-6 major blues pattern as a beginner. But I got used to it. I never got used to making chords on that same bass in a piccolo application.

I've always felt short scale basses are a better fit for piccolo applications. Easier to get a string tension that won't kill ya.

The 30" scale of the Gretsch bass yesterday felt amazing! I didn't have any cramping or hand pain after making power chords near the nut. And I know the power chords and other chords will feel great with the piccolo strings if I choose to go that route.

I will post back here and do a full NBD post if I acquire a new Gretsch or another short scale piccolo bass.

 

[HaphAsSard]

You're right in that I do tune all my basses to D Standard, including my piccolo bass. But my hand still hurts even with the looser string tension of D Standard. It's more of a scale / left hand ergonomics issue for me. I learned the hard way that long scale basses don't work well in a piccolo application simply because the frets are too far apart for playing chords.

I learned how to play bass on my Squier Jazz because it's my first ever bass. So that got me familiar with a 34" scale from the beginning, just in a "traditional" bass application. I remember thinking that the frets were too far apart for me to play a simple 1-3-5-6 major blues pattern as a beginner. But I got used to it. I never got used to making chords on that same bass in a piccolo application.

I wasn't referring to tension (which is, within limits, always negotiable: if it's too heavy, go down in gauge and it will go down accordingly).

I meant tuning down means that a given chord will be fretted closer to the bridge. This entails less string spread (and conversely, a wider neck, unlike with a natively short scale instrument, but I still believe a net benefit to be present).
How about tuning BEAD and permanently capoing at the 3rd fret?

 

[Cal03]

+1 to the short-scale for piccolo, I have a 5-string Ibanez MiKro tuned CGDAE (yes, that top E is the same E4 on a guitar!) and it's great for chords and melodies.

 

[Ritter667]

My 5 string 28.6" scale Ibanez GSRM25 Mikro Bass, equipped with Elixir Nanoweb guitar strings of the gauges .080 - .062 - .046 - .036 - .026, and tuned to G#1 standard tuning, that is G#1 - C#2 - F#2 - B2 - E3, so again a tenor bass tuning, rather than piccolo:
View attachment 7080160

So I have had this bass stringed and tuned like this for a while, and I liked it.

But it wasn't quite there, there was something messy and muddy about it, like too much sympathetic vibrations going on, even with muted strings, using floating thumb technique, also the two upper strings felt a little too stiff.

So I thought what the heck, decided to change the gauge .036 with a gauge .032 string, and the gauge .026 for a gauge .024 string, and tune all the strings one half step up to A standard tuning, as in the 5 upper strings of a 7 string bass in regular B standard tuning.

And woe behold!

The result was a so much clearer sounding bass, like you could hear every detail and individual notes when playing chords on the upper strings, and it just felt completely right too.

Just damn, what a difference a half step and a few lbs increased string tension can do, this is my new favorite instrument.

Sounds and plays like a bass, that is tone and feel wise, but has partially functionality as an A tuned baritone guitar, just perfect.

I might add I even use the stock pickups, or that is actually only the bridge stock J pickup, wired directly to the output jack socket, as the stock neck J pickup has always been faulty (I think it is just a broken magnet, these are ceramic pickups, it sounded weird, and then I found out the magnetic field over the lower strings was really weak. So could likely fix it by gluing on a new bar magnet, and really ought to).

And it actually sound pretty damn great.

And by some magic pretty much silent, I found out that at the point this was made, 2019, Cort factory in Indonesia, they used shielded wiring (unfortunately Ibanez moved production back to China at this point, and the current Mikro basses are not just as great instruments as they were back when they were made on the Cort factory in Indonesia. For one the bridge plate is made of thinner metal, and the frets are no standard medium jumbo, whereas the ones on this is regular medium, slimmer frets, which I personally prefer).

And low action too without any fretbuzz whatsoever, exactly 2mm (5/64") at last fret lowest string side.

Really heavy Poplar body, maple neck with Jatoba fretboard.

Freaking awesome sounding and playing.

Ah, and it has got a name, very suiting for its nature, "Mr. Growly - The Noodlemancer".

New noodle samples from this bass, with a slightly changed setup since the last sample I posted in this thread of it:
View attachment 7143605
View attachment 7143606

I should probably add that I have an always on 1 octave up effect going on as part as my basic "clean" tone (which isn't really clean at all), from a custom Toneprint I made myself, loaded on my Sub'N'Up Mini, made to approximate and effect somewhat similar to that of an 8 string bass.

+1 to the short-scale for piccolo, I have a 5-string Ibanez MiKro tuned CGDAE (yes, that top E is the same E4 on a guitar!) and it's great for chords and melodies.

As I posted previous in this thread I use my just 28.6" scale 5 string Mikro Bass in G# standard tuning, that is all fourth tuning.

A bit lower, and in all fourth tuning, beside, still somewhat similar to how you use it.

I like to have the bass range that my low G# string provides at my disposal though.

But yes, the 5 string Mikro is perfect for this application.

Here's the most recent picture of mine:

 

[MrAB4003]

You're right in that I do tune all my basses to D Standard, including my piccolo bass. But my hand still hurts even with the looser string tension of D Standard. It's more of a scale / left hand ergonomics issue for me. I learned the hard way that long scale basses don't work well in a piccolo application simply because the frets are too far apart for playing chords.

I learned how to play bass on my Squier Jazz because it's my first ever bass. So that got me familiar with a 34" scale from the beginning, just in a "traditional" bass application. I remember thinking that the frets were too far apart for me to play a simple 1-3-5-6 major blues pattern as a beginner. But I got used to it. I never got used to making chords on that same bass in a piccolo application.

The 30" scale of the Gretsch bass yesterday felt amazing! I didn't have any cramping or hand pain after making power chords near the nut. And I know the power chords and other chords will feel great with the piccolo strings if I choose to go that route.

I will post back here and do a full NBD post if I acquire a new Gretsch or another short scale piccolo bass.

Some updates - I ordered a Gretsch Streamliner Jet tonight, but it won't be at my house until June because they're on back order. Once it comes, I will string it with my piccolo strings and I will be back in business again.

I also replaced the piccolo strings with regular bass strings on my Squier. Playing it again was like trying to rekindle with my ex-girlfriend: weird, but nostalgic. So I plan on donating that bass to a local school where the students can play and love it just like I did when I was a teenager. Selling a $300 Squier from 2008 is not worth the hassle. As a (math) tutor by profession, I'd rather make some young ones happy because seeing them learn and grow is what makes me happy.

That being said, I'm not leaving the Piccolo Bass Club while I'm waiting for my new Gretsch.

 

[MrAB4003]

My next question is has anyone here strung a short scale piccolo bass in D Standard? Another TB-er in another thread tried and they got lots of fret buzz.

Post in thread 'Ideal Gretsch itch'
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ideal-gretsch-itch.1665866/#post-28996264

 

[Mister_GothFrak]

Hails!

I just got a 1967-68 Hägstrom H8 and tuned both courses to BEAD. Now, I personally consider this to be my "heavy piccolo". Would anyone else here? lol.
If it had a wider neck and more room on the headstock, I'd modify it to regain those G strings...

30" scale length.
I ordered two custom sets of DR Strings through my local music shoppe.

DR DDT for the thick course.
.145
.120
.090
.070

DR Legends, all flatwound, for the higher octave
.085
.065
.045
.032 ⸸


⸸ this is the only "guitar" string on this bass. It has a hex core rather than round core, which is fine because it's the very top string.


My only influence, after hearing about these things, was a band that I grew up listening to the casettes of... Man-O-War !

I plan on using it as a regular bass but, for when I want a little extra top end when playing in standard tuning.

FWIW, I have a 6-string in drop E0, an 8-string multi-course in drop C with an extra pair below for low G, 4-string in Drop C, 5-string in C# standard, and a 12-string multi-course in G#. So, to me B0 with B1 is definitely piccolo!


Oh, I just wanted to add that piccolo basses really intrigue me but, I don't want to sacrifice my demon-beast lows to get them.

P.S. Sorry, these photos are from the guy who sold it to me. I haven't had a chance to get my mail yet!

 

[MrAB4003]

Some updates - I ordered a Gretsch Streamliner Jet tonight, but it won't be at my house until June because they're on back order. Once it comes, I will string it with my piccolo strings and I will be back in business again.

I also replaced the piccolo strings with regular bass strings on my Squier. Playing it again was like trying to rekindle with my ex-girlfriend: weird, but nostalgic. So I plan on donating that bass to a local school where the students can play and love it just like I did when I was a teenager. Selling a $300 Squier from 2008 is not worth the hassle. As a (math) tutor by profession, I'd rather make some young ones happy because seeing them learn and grow is what makes me happy.

That being said, I'm not leaving the Piccolo Bass Club while I'm waiting for my new Gretsch.

Update #2 - My Gretsch piccolo bass idea did not work out, so I decided to switch from piccolo bass to guitar. Having previously made three albums featuring piccolo bass in lieu of a guitar, does that mean I'm still in the club?

 

[Ritter667]

Update #2 - My Gretsch piccolo bass idea did not work out, so I decided to switch from piccolo bass to guitar. Having previously made three albums featuring piccolo bass in lieu of a guitar, does that mean I'm still in the club?

No!

You are now an forever on a 6 string traitor!

Just kidding...

I am curious though what it was that didn't work for you in specifics?

 

[MrAB4003]

No!

You are now an forever on a 6 string traitor!

Just kidding...

I am curious though what it was that didn't work for you in specifics?

I wrote a whole NBD post about that. There’s also a lot more options available with guitar vs piccolo bass. I’m sure I’m going to have another piccolo bass in the future given that I played and made some great music with one for a few years.

 

[Ritter667]

A rather poor photo of my just 28.6" scale length 4 string Ibanez GSRM20B Mikro Bass, equipped with just the bridge J pickup from the EMG Geezer Butler P/J set, wired directly to the output jack socket, and Elixir Nanoweb guitar strings of the gauges .068 - .052 - .038 - 028, and tuned to B standard tuning, as in the 4 lowest strings on a baritone guitar, really making it more of a long scale baritone tenor guitar.

Okoume body and Maple neck with Purpleheart (Amaranth) fretboard.

View attachment 7244319

Sounds and plays awesome!

Here you go:
View attachment 7244955

Mind it is run through an always on TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini octaver, for an octave up effect, dialed in, via the Toneprint editor, to somewhat mimic an 8 string bass -esque effect.

I always do this, just part of my basic setup.

Recorded directly though my amp-less setup, into my handheld Zoom H4n recorder, with no additional edits, and this is my basic "clean" tone (not really clean, but it is what I use for my basic tone), without any additional effects used.