Pickup placement question

[DC in ATX]

Essentially, I am trying to solve for:

Where do I rout a body to center the poles on a bridge pup under the strings?

This is either a math problem or a "string it up and measure" problem. These are "found" parts, so to speak. So, there is no rule of thumb or precent to rely on.

These are the existing conditions or givens:

• 5-string adjustable bridge
  • Nominally 17.5mm OC
• Bridge pup (Aero H)
  • Body is already routed for the bridge pup
  • Poles are 17.3mm OC
• Nut width
  • Slot spacing is somewhat variable if I shape a new nut

My goal is to add:

• Neck pickup (Aero H)
  • Poles a 16.3mm OC

In your expert opinion, is the the string it and find it option the most reliable? Or is there another way to locate the neck pup? Are there calculators for that sort of thing?

 

[MPU]

Strings don’t need to be exatly over the poles. I’d rout the neck pickup to J or P position.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Yes, the side-to-side alignment of the strings over the poles doesn't have to be perfect for the pickups to work fine. It becomes cosmetic. Align the center pole to the A string, and the others end up where they end up.

 

[DC in ATX]

Strings don’t need to be exatly over the poles. I’d rout the neck pickup to J or P position.

Yes, the side-to-side alignment of the strings over the poles doesn't have to be perfect for the pickups to work fine. It becomes cosmetic. Align the center pole to the A string, and the others end up where they end up.

Are you telling me that Larry is smoking too much Thai stick? (Or whatever it is that the cool Hawaiian islanders smoke these days.)

As far as I can tell, Larry is all about the "exact string spacing."

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Are you telling me that Larry is smoking too much Thai stick? (Or whatever it is that the cool Hawaiian islanders smoke these days.)

As far as I can tell, Larry is all about the "exact string spacing."

Alignment of the string over the pole is a little more important on skinny guitar strings. Bass strings have much more iron mass, and bass pickup poles/magnets are stronger than guitar pickups. I know from testing that, with good strong bass pickups, the string can be centered anywhere over the pole piece, with no significant loss of level or tone.

 

[DC in ATX]

Alignment of the string over the pole is a little more important on skinny guitar strings. Bass strings have much more iron mass, and bass pickup poles/magnets are stronger than guitar pickups. I know from testing that, with good strong bass pickups, the string can be centered anywhere over the pole piece, with no significant loss of level or tone.

Thanks, Bruce. That makes sense.

 

[dwizum]

Fore/aft position of the pickup will make a big difference in tone and output. Position the pickup to get the tone you want and (as indicated above) don't worry about string spacing relative to pole spacing.

 

[DC in ATX]

Right. That's the right question. I don't have enough experience with pup placement to have an informed opinion RE: the right answer.

I know that Elrick uses these pups on their Steve Lawson signature basses. It look like Elrick places the pups equidistant from the bridge and the end of the fretboard:

Maybe I can do the same thing with the G5 body I am working with?

The pickup placement will be a bit less balanced than the Elrick. The bridge pup will be closer to the bridge and the neck pup will be closer to the neck.

I have talked to Larry on the phone a couple times and he may prefer placing the pups for very different tones. That is my vague recollection of a previous call.

This is the 4-hole control scheme that he recommends:

"Assuming these are H Series PHC, then V/V/T/Sw is a great option. (2) Volume pots are 250 K Audio taper. (1) Passive tone is 250 K Linear taper with a 0.022 uF capacitor. (1) Sw is a 4 position rotary switch with a solid shaft (takes a set screw knob).

Parallel Hum Canceling (PHC) pickups are two Single Coil (SC) pickups wired in parallel for hum canceling. Either bobbin can be used for SC, but the best use is the neck-most neck pickup bobbin, and the bridge-most bridge pickup bobbin. To select select all modes between SC & PHC requires one rotary switch (for a single PHC or a neck/bridge set). Each pickup has 2 modes SC or PHC.

Combining two PHC pickups you can select the 4 industry standard pickup combinations. These are:

1. Two SC pickups (Jazz Bass)
2. PHC neck with SC bridge pickup (P/J like combination, but not exact)
3. SC neck with PHC bridge (MM like pickup + Single coil)
4. Two PHC pickups (Modern Soapbars Bass)"

You can see the bridge placement here:

Does that look anything like a 60s or 70s jazz bridge pickup placement?

if so, I could put the second pup at the jazz neck position or the p position—as suggested. That’s probably a more conservative approach.

If it makes any difference, this will get a fretless neck.

 

[DC in ATX]

In case someone lands here looking for help with dimensions:

Yeah I posted a spreadsheet like that some time ago in the pickups forum. Another guy, @RyanKinBK , picked it up and made some improvements/additions.

Bass guitar - Pickup position measurements

Like the others have said it's not as magic as you might think; the nodes will move around as you play up and down the neck anyway. I'm still convinced the Pbass pickup was placed by just putting it halfway between the neck and the bridge.

 

[Flying B]

Right. That's the right question. I don't have enough experience with pup placement to have an informed opinion RE: the right answer.

I know that Elrick uses these pups on their Steve Lawson signature basses. It look like Elrick places the pups equidistant from the bridge and the end of the fretboard:

View attachment 4389721

Maybe I can do the same thing with the G5 body I am working with?

The pickup placement will be a bit less balanced than the Elrick. The bridge pup will be closer to the bridge and the neck pup will be closer to the neck.

I have talked to Larry on the phone a couple times and he may prefer placing the pups for very different tones. That is my vague recollection of a previous call.

This is the 4-hole control scheme that he recommends:

"Assuming these are H Series PHC, then V/V/T/Sw is a great option. (2) Volume pots are 250 K Audio taper. (1) Passive tone is 250 K Linear taper with a 0.022 uF capacitor. (1) Sw is a 4 position rotary switch with a solid shaft (takes a set screw knob).

Parallel Hum Canceling (PHC) pickups are two Single Coil (SC) pickups wired in parallel for hum canceling. Either bobbin can be used for SC, but the best use is the neck-most neck pickup bobbin, and the bridge-most bridge pickup bobbin. To select select all modes between SC & PHC requires one rotary switch (for a single PHC or a neck/bridge set). Each pickup has 2 modes SC or PHC.

Combining two PHC pickups you can select the 4 industry standard pickup combinations. These are:

1. Two SC pickups (Jazz Bass)
2. PHC neck with SC bridge pickup (P/J like combination, but not exact)
3. SC neck with PHC bridge (MM like pickup + Single coil)
4. Two PHC pickups (Modern Soapbars Bass)"

You can see the bridge placement here:

View attachment 4389733

Does that look anything like a 60s or 70s jazz bridge pickup placement?

if so, I could put the second pup at the jazz neck position or the p position—as suggested. That’s probably a more conservative approach.

If it makes any difference, this will get a fretless neck.

When I look at this picture I see a tiny little bass stuck to someone's finger tip.

Sorry I don't have anything more helpful to say.

 

[DC in ATX]

When I look at this picture I see a tiny little bass stuck to someone's finger tip.

Sorry I don't have anything more helpful to say.

I got some hairy knuckles

 

[DC in ATX]

This is probably a useful reference point:

SOLD - Warmoth Deluxe V (G5) Nordstrand/Hipshot

I can't get exact measurements, but it's the same bass with similar soapbars. It's possible that the Warmoth configurator will give me some measurements.

No exact measurements, but this is a useful reference for scale:

 

[Robscott]

I converted a p bass to 5 string and made a mistake routing for the pup, which ended up with the B string closer to the E string pole than the B string pole. It made zero difference, all the strings were perfectly balanced. However I did reposition the pup and cover up with a new pickguard for cosmetic reasons. Sonically though, no effect at all. IOW, don't stress on it, just make sure your bass looks nice

 

[Durham52]

I'd say the pickups in the Elrik are in about the same places as the pickups in the Warmoth and both are more or less in the traditional Fender 'sweet spot' positions. The number of frets/fretboard length can make the pickup positions look different.

 

[TerribleTim68]

I'd say the pickups in the Elrik are in about the same places as the pickups in the Warmoth and both are more or less in the traditional Fender 'sweet spot' positions. The number of frets/fretboard length can make the pickup positions look different.
View attachment 4389963

I always love looking at this pic every time it comes up, because it really portrays how widely the difference in pickup placement is across other brands outside the Fender "norm". But I also feel like it needs to include the Yamaha Attitude basses and the Gibson EBO, because literally both of those basses are such a drastic departure from this list (aside from the Rick with its one pickup near the neck).

 

[Black Out Jazz]

When I look at this picture I see a tiny little bass stuck to someone's finger tip.

Sorry I don't have anything more helpful to say.

LOL same here

 

[RichterScale]

I'm using a single pup on the next bass. I typed in all the specs in fretfind2d and punched in 36 frets.
It will be a 24 fret but I figure I can use 24-36 as sort of a guide/ruler.
I've heard many times that Ric places the neck pup right where the 24th fret would be. Not sure where the bridge pup ends up. Whatever system they use on the Rics seems to work out well. I'm not expecting any magic, but I figure hypothetical fret locations is as good a trick as any for picking locations (if going by measurements and by eye, without a test mule).

 

[rudy4444]

There's a lot of pseudoscience put out there to predict some sort of ideal for pole positioning along the string path and relating to harmonic nodes. If anyone thinks this is important then they can simply recalculate those "ideal" points as the string is fretted.

Nuff said.

 

[RichterScale]

Nothing pseudoscience about it for me. I clearly stated I was using the imaginary fret positions as a guide and nothing more. Not expecting any magic.

 

[ardgedee]

I cooked up this diagram when I was curious about where Leo Fender had located pickups on his basses:

It's not totally accurate but that doesn't change the generalized answer: Pretty much everywhere. It depends on the sound you want.