pickup replacement for schecter, can't get the sound I want

[Ric5]

Hello, I'm a bass newbie although I've played guitar for a long time. A few months back, I got a Schecter Stiletto Studio 4 with passive EMG-HZ pu's and 3-band emz active EQ. This is currently run through a GK1001RB-II and Ampeg Heritage 410HLF and a Microtubes B7K pedal. I thought it sounded ok (I play mainly 80s metal--think slayer,overkill, exodus, metallica--old school thrash). But I was still a little disappointed. I also play Dio and I wanted to try a Yamaha like ole' Jimmy Bain.

So I got a Yamaha bb424x. That was it! the sound I wanted (but didn't know until I heard it). This is currently run through a Aguilar TH500 and Ampeg 212AV with a SansAmp Tech 21.

I've tried swapping everything around: settings, amps, effects. I can only get the sound when I use the Yamaha bass, and not the Schecter. So I think it is the Schecter that is lacking the mid-range punch that I get with the Yamaha? not sure at all. The Yamaha has that clanky sound that I love and it just cuts through, whereas the Schecter seems subdued/dull/boring.

I think I need a pu change in the Schecter (as I keep one bass at work, one at home, and I want them both to sound good)

Suggestions? thanks

Schecters are nice basses with crappy electronics …

Try Nordstrand pickups … or Jerry Sentell

Also try a 3 or 4 band Audere preamp

 

[dkelley]

Also.... try using only the neck pickup.

Mids, here we come.....


2 pickups actually scoops the sound. 1, near p position, is low-mid forward. Assuming the mids don't get eaten by the specific pickup design.

 

[paul_car]

Also.... try using only the neck pickup.

Mids, here we come.....


2 pickups actually scoops the sound. 1, near p position, is low-mid forward. Assuming the mids don't get eaten by the specific pickup design.

I guess P position is towards the neck. This information is totally strange to a guitar player. I'd think bridge pickup is the issue when trying to cut through. Will try!

 

[dkelley]

I guess P position is towards the neck. This information is totally strange to a guitar player. I'd think bridge pickup is the issue when trying to cut through. Will try!

Yes you're right on both counts.

But the best bass to cut through, on average, is a simple p bass. Fender precision being a P.

Pickup is sort of in the middle, but most bass guitar neck pickups are sort of around that area... maybe a little nearer the neck than with a real P bass.

That way you get the huge bottom and fat mids without scooping out the middle-upper mids by passively mixing in the bridge pickup (and yes active basses mix the pickups passively before the preamp, and you get a bit of that strat quack thing in the scooped mids as a result). Think of a strat... how often do you play with soloed bridge pickup, clean, not playing with nice aftermarker or texas special pups? Personally not very often.

I think of a fender precision like a Gibson les paul junior. One pickup.... but what a pickup and what a position. Awesome, if a little one trick.

On a bass, the bridge pickup imho tends to lack the full bodied and dynamic response of the p pickup, when soloed, unless you're jaco playing the bass of doom.

So let me/us know if that gets you in the right direction. For slap, two pickups. Up the neck solos (or jazz fusion)? Bridge pickup. Cutting but sitting in the mix? Fender precision, or just your neck pickup.

Worth a shot and no cost.

 

[lokikallas]

Drop some DC's in there and call it a day! The Hz's are kinda craptacular. I mean, they function, but sound sound meh to me.

 

[Keger Jupit]

I tried starting a thread on this very problem; that is, the EMG "problem" I have with my Riot 5. Every EMG that I've liked over the years has been in a guitar, & I've never met an EMG pre that I liked.

Anyone tried the Nordy Big Blades, specifically in warm/wooly flavor? I'm thinking of pairing them with either a John East or Darkglass Tone Capsule.

 

[dkelley]

Dcs versus hzs makes me think of emg selects.

Great tone.... but like overwound guitar pickups, no sizzle or brightness.

Dcs are the ones that actually, finally, have some bite to them, is that right?

 

[ctmullins]

As far as I’m concerned, all of the active EMGs have plenty of bite.

 

[nilorius]

Try out Bartolini.

 

[sikamikanico]

Definitely start with changing the strings. Then I’d consider passive split coil pickups, if you want to get closer to the Yamaha PJ sound. I’d suggest Nordstrand Big splits, I think they get pretty close to a passive P sound.

Or, since you already have the Yamaha for that sound, maybe try something different? Active dual coils, sidewinders, etc... or, maybe you can make the current pickups work with the right strings. It may take trying a few different sets. I really like the mids on GHS pressurewounds, but that may be just what worked for me and my bass...

 

[gerryjazzman]

The Schecters with the EMG soapbar HZ pickups (since yours is a 4-string they would be the 35HZ) have no pickup switching ability, so each pickup (they are dual coil) are either permanently wired in parallel or series, but I'm not sure which. In either case, virtually all side by side humbuckers will sound somewhat scooped. Mids will be somewhat subdued and so will sound kind of dull in the mids. One experiment you could try is to try running one or both pickups in single coil mode a 'la a Jazz bass. You would have the choice to use the rear coil or front coil in each one, but one rear and one front coil would provide hum cancelling. I don't have any first hand experience with the HZ's so not sure how they would sound but it's worth a try at zero cost. My experience is with MM pickups which are also side by side humbuckers, and the Schecter Diamond SuperRock pickups (also side by side humbuckers) in my Raiden Special 5. I also have a Riot 5 Session series with active EMG's, 40DC bridge and 40J neck. I just replaced the bridge pickup with a 40TWX so I can get the single coil as well as the humbucker sound. The DC (as well as the CS pickups) have the same tendency to scoop the mids. They can get pretty growly in the low-mids though and can get pretty agressive in the treble (DC even moreso) if that's your cuppa.

Here is the 35HZ instruction sheet from EMG: Invalid Link Removed

If that doesn't give you what you want, then there is a whole bunch of options for pickup replacements as others have indicated. You could do active EMGs, Nordstrands, Barts, etc. in the EMG 35 size. If you do go the replacement route, I would probably lean towards single coils or split humbuckers, or P-style.

 

[paul_car]

The Schecters with the EMG soapbar HZ pickups (since yours is a 4-string they would be the 35HZ) have no pickup switching ability, so each pickup (they are dual coil) are either permanently wired in parallel or series, but I'm not sure which. In either case, virtually all side by side humbuckers will sound somewhat scooped. Mids will be somewhat subdued and so will sound kind of dull in the mids. One experiment you could try is to try running one or both pickups in single coil mode a 'la a Jazz bass. You would have the choice to use the rear coil or front coil in each one, but one rear and one front coil would provide hum cancelling. I don't have any first hand experience with the HZ's so not sure how they would sound but it's worth a try at zero cost. My experience is with MM pickups which are also side by side humbuckers, and the Schecter Diamond SuperRock pickups (also side by side humbuckers) in my Raiden Special 5. I also have a Riot 5 Session series with active EMG's, 40DC bridge and 40J neck. I just replaced the bridge pickup with a 40TWX so I can get the single coil as well as the humbucker sound. The DC (as well as the CS pickups) have the same tendency to scoop the mids. They can get pretty growly in the low-mids though and can get pretty agressive in the treble (DC even moreso) if that's your cuppa.

Here is the 35HZ instruction sheet from EMG: Invalid Link Removed

If that doesn't give you what you want, then there is a whole bunch of options for pickup replacements as others have indicated. You could do active EMGs, Nordstrands, Barts, etc. in the EMG 35 size. If you do go the replacement route, I would probably lean towards single coils or split humbuckers, or P-style.

Thanks for all the info. This is confusing, as my mind is programmed to the sound of six string humbuckers (like EMG 81/85 in my ESP) vs single coils. In the bass world, these preconceptions are thrown on their head. Now I am back to thinking of getting another Yamaha and selling this Schecter. I even bought a new hard case and had a custom ebony ramp made for it. Black , excellent condition. Maybe you'll see it on Reverb!

 

[Liam Wald]

There are so many great instruments out there it seems to me to make more sense to just keep looking until you find one that sounds the way you like rather than trying to make one that doesn't sound right to you become something it isn't.

 

[Watchootognbout]

I had a Schecter Stilletto Studio 5 in 2015.
I owed it for a few months.
Then sold it.
There was something missing in the sound.....
......something.....

 

[keyofnight]

Thanks for all the info. This is confusing, as my mind is programmed to the sound of six string humbuckers (like EMG 81/85 in my ESP) vs single coils. In the bass world, these preconceptions are thrown on their head. Now I am back to thinking of getting another Yamaha and selling this Schecter. I even bought a new hard case and had a custom ebony ramp made for it. Black , excellent condition. Maybe you'll see it on Reverb!

Wait up, dude! Don't do it yet! I skimmed all of the posts, and I think I know what's going on here. Coincidentally, this is one of the issues that brought me to TalkBass! (Btw, welcome! ) I went through a journey to get here, so get your juice box and blanket ready because it's story time.

I have an old Schecter C-5, which is a cousin to the Stiletto that uses the 5-string EMG-HZ size. I was not happy with the electronics at all—they sounded muddy. I found out that this bass comes with an EMG BTC preamp. I think the Stilettos do too. I found a few posts saying that some EMG preamps sound muddy with 9v and much better with 18v (edit: even better 24v)—the BTC was one of them. I wired in terminals for a second battery, and that really did help. You could try that. (Edit: they even sell battery pack mods you can just drop in, no soldering required.)

But it wasn't enough. The bass didn't sound BRIGHT enough. So, I took a look in the Invalid Link Removed and found the specs for the pickup. Apparently, for my EMG 40HZ, the resonant frequency changes drastically depending on what volume pots I use. This is pretty common knowledge about guitar electronics, but it was amazing to see just *how much* it changes for these pickups. For my 40HZ, it goes from 2600Hz with a 500KΩ pot to 4400Hz with a 1MΩ pot. For your 35HZ, it's from 2850Hz to 4900Hz. We all know that pots matter, and in my case, they really mattered. It was like my bass finally came alive. Maybe you can try this too?

That said, I still love the idea of getting me a Yamaha. The old BB5000 has this punchy, bright, full sound that I love. I might still get one of those. But I still love my Schecter, so I probably wouldn't replace it.

Edit—some closing thoughts: if you don't mind the idea of customizing your instrument to make it yours, a minor modification (more juice, different pre, or different pots) could make the EMG HZs sing. But if you just want to get what you want and get it over with? Yeah, go ahead and get the Yamaha.

 

[keyofnight]

The Schecters with the EMG soapbar HZ pickups (since yours is a 4-string they would be the 35HZ) have no pickup switching ability, so each pickup (they are dual coil) are either permanently wired in parallel or series, but I'm not sure which. In either case, virtually all side by side humbuckers will sound somewhat scooped. Mids will be somewhat subdued and so will sound kind of dull in the mids. One experiment you could try is to try running one or both pickups in single coil mode a 'la a Jazz bass. You would have the choice to use the rear coil or front coil in each one, but one rear and one front coil would provide hum cancelling.

I ended up running mine with a rotary switch that selects combinations of coils. This allows me to try a lot of different sounds. Here's Invalid Link Removed, and here is a picture of the finished product:

 

[radmin]

I’ve been down this road. It leads to disappointment. Just get the bass that sounds right. You’ll save money in the long run.

 

[Wfrance3]

I have Delano Soapbars in my Elite 5, which is probably not what you are going for probably. I bring this up because my Delano’s are more than 2 wire and can go series, single coil or parallel independently. Maybe something more closely voiced to the Yamahas that you like, in a multiple wire version, would let you check out the series/parallel scenario and get it dialed in just to your liking and remain passive to boot.

 

[SteveC]

I must have missed something. If you like the sound of the Yamaha just play that. Problem solved. Get rid of the Schecter. They aren that great anyway and Yamaha is highly underrated.

 

[chadface]

My schecter stiletto elite 5 has 2 dip switches in the control cavity. Switching them changes the eq curve. I don't have it handy but there is an emg document out there that shows the curves for each combination of the switches. I suggest looking for that and seeing if it gets you what you want