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Double Bass Pickups Of Yesteryear

#41
I can't disagree at all (nor would I wish to). The recording you posted did, indeed sound good.

And, as you say, mixing the two can give you a potentially broader range of sound/tone to work with.

I don't claim my approach or sound is the 'right' one, but it's the one that I like. When my tone is important (especially if I am recording - even just recording a gig) I like to use the microphone alone.

That said, the last two gigs I played I just used my KNA pickup (I was also using my '2nd' bass). I always have the KNA's on both basses all the time, but on my 'good bass' that's really just a backup in case I run into a situation where the mic doesn't work.

I am, admittedly, a bit of a MBOL fan. That is also why I love listening to Christian McBride who records with a very realistic acoustic sound.
 
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#42
Wasnex said:
I was looking at some of the KNKX public radio videos with the Christian McBride trio. It looks like they are consistently using an EV RE 20 on Christian's bass. The mic is actually not really that close to the bass, and the RE20 has a really loose polar patter, meaning it picks up a lot of bleed. On the plus side, I think the off-axis response of the RE20 is relatively uncolored, so bleed from the drums and cymbals would not be to problematic as long as the sound from the bass dominates. Note: some of the videos have a SDC taped to the RE20. I believe the way this was done would tend to make the RE20's pattern more omni, because the tape is blocking many of the mic's ports.

I like Christian's tone in these videos quite a bit. Although he makes it look easy, the amount of string excursion produced when he plucks suggests he is using a fair amount of strength.
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I think it's worth noting that in most of these KNKX videos, Christian is using a pickup into an amp as well as the RE20. Probably using the pickup and amp for monitoring and the RE20 just for recording. So it doesn't necessarily tell us a lot about his live sound.
 
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#43
Michael Glynn said:
I think it's worth noting that in most of these KNKX videos, Christian is using a pickup into an amp as well as the RE20. Probably using the pickup and amp for monitoring and the RE20 just for recording. So it doesn't necessarily tell us a lot about his live sound.
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I have no way of knowing the exact signal path for either of the recordings I posted.

I can clearly see a pickup on the bass for the KNKX recording. In other KNKX videos, I can see a bass amp, the chord running from the bass, and a Countryman Type 85 DI. I think the most likely scenario is the mic is used to capture the bass for the recording, but it's possible some of the pickup is mixed in. Regardless, Christian's tone in the various KNKX videos sounds great, and I would not be surprised if he had his fingers in post production.

On the Chick Corea recording, I can clearly see an AMT S25B on the F hole of the bass and an AKG C414 pointed at the bridge...pretty sure this is Christian's bass. I zoomed in and there are wires for a pickup on the bridge as well.

I did a bit of research:

Christian is listed as an Endorser on the AMT website.
Invalid Link Removed

This page says he uses a Gage Realist and an AMT.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

This page says the AMT is sent to the house and monitors.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

So perhaps the Realist was sent to the amp, the AMT was send to FOH, and the AKG 414 was used to capture sound for the recording. Just a semi-educated guess.​

Many people consider the Realist a pickup of yesteryear ;).

I think Christian's many live videos tell you all you need to know about his live tone. My perception his goal is pretty much MBOL, but various aspects of live performance tend to make achieving this goal elusive.
 
#44
Peter Kowald used the Polytone bar to the end of his life and pulled a great sound out of it:

I used one for years until it failed. I got another but I couldn't get it grounded. I have used the Barcus Berry clamp with great results for years now:

While innovation in pick ups has been welcome, I think the amps were a far bigger issue. Also the best new pick ups seem to be invasive and not come off the instrument very well.
 
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#45
Something I've wondered about, back when players used those early pickups into what amps were available, is input impedance. The high input on most tube amps is at least 1Mohm, or higher on Ampegs, but many solid state amps of the time had lower input impedance, often around 100K ohms. I wonder if many noticed the change in tone that would have resulted when making the change to solid state amps.
 
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#46
Wasnex said:
I have no way of knowing the exact signal path for either of the recordings I posted.

I can clearly see a pickup on the bass for the KNKX recording. In other KNKX videos, I can see a bass amp, the chord running from the bass, and a Countryman Type 85 DI. I think the most likely scenario is the mic is used to capture the bass for the recording, but it's possible some of the pickup is mixed in. Regardless, Christian's tone in the various KNKX videos sounds great, and I would not be surprised if he had his fingers in post production.

On the Chick Corea recording, I can clearly see an AMT S25B on the F hole of the bass and an AKG C414 pointed at the bridge...pretty sure this is Christian's bass. I zoomed in and there are wires for a pickup on the bridge as well.

I did a bit of research:

Christian is listed as an Endorser on the AMT website.
Invalid Link Removed

This page says he uses a Gage Realist and an AMT.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

This page says the AMT is sent to the house and monitors.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

So perhaps the Realist was sent to the amp, the AMT was send to FOH, and the AKG 414 was used to capture sound for the recording. Just a semi-educated guess.​

Many people consider the Realist a pickup of yesteryear ;).

I think Christian's many live videos tell you all you need to know about his live tone. My perception his goal is pretty much MBOL, but various aspects of live performance tend to make achieving this goal elusive.
Click to expand...

I was in the room for this one:


Louder band than the trio ones for sure, and he had the pickup into the amp turned up pretty high in that tiny room. Sounded great, but also quite different from what you hear in the video. They usually take the mic and DI when they do those studio sessions. Being such a small room, with a loud sextet it usually ends up being mostly DI, and mostly mic with a trio.

But I imagine Christian probably has more say in what goes into the mix than mere mortals. :)
 
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#49
Rick Turner had a column in Guitar Player mag way back. He mentioned in his column about the necessity for a "buffering preamp" with piezo pickups. I not only didn't know what a buffering preamp was, I didn't know what a piezo pickup was, even though I had been using one for several years by that time and dealing with all the issues between pickup and amp with limited success.
 
#52
Michael Glynn said:
I was in the room for this one:


Louder band than the trio ones for sure, and he had the pickup into the amp turned up pretty high in that tiny room. Sounded great, but also quite different from what you hear in the video. They usually take the mic and DI when they do those studio sessions. Being such a small room, with a loud sextet it usually ends up being mostly DI, and mostly mic with a trio.

But I imagine Christian probably has more say in what goes into the mix than mere mortals. :)
Click to expand...


Thanks for posting. I enjoyed that listen.
 
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#53
The Electrovoice RE20 used to be the microphone that they used for Double Bass. Those must be pretty old videos, because Christian went to a AMT SP25B quite some time ago, and now uses the Nadine.
rickwolff said:
I believe that is from 1948. When pickups were pickups and amps weighed 200 pounds.
Click to expand...

:):D:laugh::roflmao: Well more like 85 lbs if you were using the Ampeg B-15N Portaflex, but they were heavy.
 

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