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PitchFactor vs. MicroPOG/POG2/HOG2 tracking.

Kazoo_Legend

Kazoo_Legend

Guest
Oct 20, 2012
330
38
Central Valley CA
#1
So I'm in a bit of denial. I "upgraded" my octave situation from a MicroPOG to an Eventide Pitchfactor and I'm pretty disappointed. The features on the PF are out of control, there are more things to play with than the red light district in Thailand. But when it comes to tracking chords, no no no no no sir. It'll track perfect 5ths/4ths all day long throughout the neck, but throw a minor 3rd below G2 and welcome to the world of every octaver I've ever tried besides the EHX stuff.

My mPOG tracked everything that was wrong with the world, perfectly and without a glitch. I'm losing my mind trying to find ANYTHING on the PF's polyphonic capabilities, but everything that comes out of Eventide's mouth on their forums seems to be dodging the question by answering unasked questions in regards to it's tracking. The only thing that came in the booklet with an indirect reference about Diatonic mode stating

"Note: Due to the limitations of Diatonic Pitch Shifting, the pitch tracking algorithm is monophonic and works best on single, isolated notes, and octaves."

That's it, that's the only thing "Phonic" in the whole manual. Ok, thank you for explaining that. Now, what about the Quadravox? Same, monophonic.

Went to the HarModulator, same

Messed with every combination on the H910/H949 setting and it got a little better, but playing a E2/G2 minor 3rd stills gave the warbly results.


AM I MISSING SOMETHING??

I would've thought for SURE that a $500 octave stompbox could handle a chord (my fault for taking that for granted?), but it appears that the Eventide PitchFactor doesn't have a polyphonic bone in it's body capable of handling chords outside of two note perfect 5ths and 4ths. But in the end, it looks like a HOG2 is really what I needed since I got the PF for it's midi sync capabilities but I am now dealing with the seemingly most common problem with octavers, again. I can't believe this problem hasn't been discussed more about the PF, it seems like a issue that would prevent any bassist in need of polyphonic tracking would SLAM this pedal. If there's a link to a forum that I wasn't able to find in the search, please be that guy and link it here, I'm at a loss. Denial is the only word I got right now.

Any and all abuse/advice is much appreciated.
 
#2
As someone who has tried a PF, owned a POG2, love the micro POG but needed more features.

Now I'm the proud owner of a HOG for almost 2 years now and have yet to find anything that can do what the HOG can. I'm talking in regards to "tracking" an it can handle everything. I place mine AFTER heavy fuzz, synth and even a synth-modded OC-2. Some say that it's limited as it only has 5ths and a +2and a 3rd. To those I say just get creative!

I place a tuner (TC Polytune Mini: love the fact it mutes and it works handy for this trick). Using an expression pedal on the HOG really opens the endless fun. I use a Boss FV-500L volume pedal as its expression with no issues.

Using the minimum range knob on the boss and the tuner you can dial in anything in between.

I.E.: say you want the infamous 5th/+1 oct sweep. Set the slide to orig, set mode to octave bend. Now it will go from orig to +1. Use the side knob on the expression pedal to dial up your minimum value up to a 5th....presto!

The PF felt too fake (even though the entire process is). The freq and res on the HOG play a huge factor to either tone it down or make it all jangly.
 
#3
The PF does all those things with subjective differences in tone. My biggest problem with the PF was it's ability to handle chords, or inability. This is where polyphonic comes in over monophonic. Monophonic is used to change and bend pitches either diatonically or chromatically. Polyphonic spits out multiple generated voices that mimic the dry signal adjusted to set parameters.

Is the HOG polyphonic like the POGs are? I assume that it is (look where that got me), since taking away such a feature on a more expensive unit would be silly to me.

The single note tracking on the PF is STELLAR.
 
#4
I use the Pitchfactor on both bass and guitar. I got it used at a nice discount ($300). It is one of my most used pedals, though primarily on guitar. When I first started using it, I too was disappointed in the seeming lack of polyphonic capability according to the manual. However, this mostly subsided for me. There are so many useful sounds I can get out of it that don't require the polyphonic capability.

I think part of the issue is, in how many cases do you really want or need full polyphonic capability? The only effect where I desperately want polyphonic capability is the Pitchflex. And it's adequate-to-good in that case. Definitely fine for octaves/fifths/etc. I sometimes hear a touch of warble if I add a third (on guitar), but still not bad.

One thing you could check is whether your input is set to bass or guitar? Again, as someone who plays both, I don't always check this and haven't noticed a big difference when it's set to the wrong one. But it's worth checking out, especially since you noticed the biggest problems in the lower register.

My other tip is that sometimes how you play can help you fake the polyphonic/monophonic issue. On guitar one of my favorite effects is to do a +1 and +2 escalating delayed octave echo using the diatonic mode. This works fine with power chords if you sort of "play the pedal." I similarly use the HarModulator with power chords.

However, if you're planning to use a lot of these things with chorded thirds...then there might not be a solution.
 
#5
Adamixoye said:
However, if you're planning to use a lot of these things with chorded thirds...then there might not be a solution.
Click to expand...

I play a lot of chords and often use the octave up to fill in guitar like frequencies as both the guitarists in my band generally play very high on the neck. I've written many parts in our music using the mPOG and it's become a staple part of the sound. I was simply looking to upgrade my board to midi sync and I took for granted that the PF was a no-brainer solution. I mean the bastard does everything but track polyphonically, which ruins its keep on my board.

I'm no tech savvy code programmer, but I guess I just assume that there is an algorithm that Eventide could update that would give it the same possibilities as the EHX stuff. It's a HUGE deal breaker for me, and I thought maybe I wasn't the only one. When I'm going from M6 chords to m3 chords (inverted) or M3 to m6, I don't want to have to rely on relearning how to play a part that's been written and works with technology that already exists in another pedal.
 
#6
#7
Bryan R. Tyler said:
I've mentioned it before. There's a few posts on it that start here:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f36/e...my-substitute-545490/index11.html#post8752092
...and continue to the next page where I post an audio clip showing the deficiencies the PF has in polyphonic tracking.
Click to expand...

Well I guess that answers my question, the PitchFactor can't handle chords. Awesome.

I really appreciate your link to the thread, a lot of what I'm experiencing was in there.

I just bought it brand new, hopefully I can flip it to get a HOG2. The tone of the POG didn't bother me as much as it does to some people, I only estimate that the HOG will be similar with more shaping along with the midi sync capability.
 
#8
I don't currently have room for one, but the full MIDI capability of the HOG2 is a really huge difference over the HOG 1 and totally makes it worth getting. I had a HOG 1 and without MIDI it's not worth it. The Axe-FX rack units are the best I've heard in polyphonic tracking (and have great tone), but they're very expensive.
 
#9
Well, I wrote Eventide the following letter.


"Hello,

My name is Scott and I just recently bought an Eventide PitchFactor from Rogue Guitar Shop online last week and I have some concerns regarding your product that I assume you can help me resolve.

I am currently revamping my bass pedalboard to be 100% midi controlled and took a no-brainer chance on purchasing your Space and Pitchfactor. The Space I must say is an impeccable, fantastic unit. But I am a little bit surprised/disappointed with the PitchFactor. Besides all the obvious bells and whistles including midi pedal synchronization, the PF was going to replace my current octaver, the EHX MicroPOG. I did all the updates, struck a few notes through the PF and placed it on my board only to find out that there is no stable polyphonic function on the unit.

As stated in your manual, Diatonic and and Quadrovox mode are monophonic and do best with single notes. I found this to be true amongst all your other settings as well, including all combinations of your 910/949 mode, HarModulator, Pitchflex etc. I only able to get chords made up only of perfect 4ths and 5ths with the occasional Major 3rd. Minor chords however, are a scattered and unstable disaster.

Amongst the higher notes, the warble can be hidden by the blend, but most noticeably at the lower register, the tracking absolutely falls apart. I can't go below an E2/G2 minor 3rd without it sporadically jumping back and forth or slowly creeping in and out of tune in every mode on the unit and after turning every knob with seemingly every combination.

My biggest request from Eventide is to know if this issue is known and if and new algorithm/DSP is being coded to resolve this issue. Also, when talking with Johnathan at Rogue Guitar Shop, he explained to me that your company is extremely picky and difficult with returns. Is this true? I'm genuinely dissatisfied with the PitchFactor and its inability to track a bass guitar polyphonically. I suppose that the climax of my denial comes from notion that Electro-Harmonix can do something that Eventide cannot, which I am hoping is a result of my operational error.

I desperately want the PitchFactor to work for me, but the caveat of no stable polyphonic tracking is a real deal breaker, and word of mouth about such a shortcoming gets around quick in the world of online forums.

If there is something I'm missing I would GREATLY love to be wrong about my initial opinion on this otherwise powerful unit. I look forward to your response on this cohabitational issue.

Sincerely,

Scott"


Lets see how they respond. I feel like I could save some of my fellow TB'ers the heartache with knowledge of the issue, and not go in blind like I did.
 
#10
I will say one thing in defense of the Pitchfactor vs. the HOG/HOG2---they really are different animals. The effects just aren't the same. I love the Pitchfactor in spite of its shortcomings. And I have only noticed said shortcomings when specifically testing those limits...not when I've used it for anything I'm going to be playing live.
 
#11
Adamixoye said:
I will say one thing in defense of the Pitchfactor vs. the HOG/HOG2---they really are different animals. The effects just aren't the same. I love the Pitchfactor in spite of its shortcomings. And I have only noticed said shortcomings when specifically testing those limits...not when I've used it for anything I'm going to be playing live.
Click to expand...

Well I can definitely attest to the tonal differences between EHX and Eventide, as the PF is most definitely more organic to the dry signal than the more synthetic but better polyphonic tracking POG/HOG. I guess it's one or the other in this situation, which is something I'm slowly coming to grips with.
 
#12
Did you try any modes aside from diatonic or quadravox?

Those do not refer to polyphonic operation. Diatonic refers to the pitch shift interval
and generates up to two different pitch shifted notes. (it adds two new notes).
Quadravox adds 4 new notes.

If it has a octave mode, where shifting is limited to an octave, that may work better.
Of course that won't help if you need a diatonic shift interval.
 
#13
megafiddle said:
Did you try any modes aside from diatonic or quadravox?

Those do not refer to polyphonic operation. Diatonic refers to the pitch shift interval
and generates up to two different pitch shifted notes. (it adds two new notes).
Quadravox adds 4 new notes.

If it has a octave mode, where shifting is limited to an octave, that may work better.
Click to expand...

Yes, as I said before, I tried it in EVERY mode, H910, H949-1, H949-2, HarModulator, and Pitchflex. The Octaver mode is just a pitch down with fuzz which also seems to be the most straightforward mode on the pedal. I clearly understand what the modes do. What's being discussed here is the PitchFactor's inability to polyphonically track AT ALL in ANY mode besides perfect 5ths and 4ths.
 
#15
megafiddle said:
Ok. I don't believe Eventide ever claimed that it could, though.
Click to expand...

You got me there. It just seems like a much bigger issue to me than it is for most everyone else using an octave generator I suppose. I also didnt think that something like tracking multiple notes on a top shelf generator would need to be stated, as I took for granted that it could handle it which is my fault. I was calling out here on TB in hopes of finding out if I was missing a hidden switch or secret setting that magically unlocked its ability to do the one job I hoped it would.
 
#16
Lots of times I am already using something that is monophonic when I am using the PF (synth pedal, Octaver, etc). So I am using it to add voices, movement, arpegiation to synthy sounds. I can attest to initially being kind of disappointed about the lack of polyphony, but now I play to the pedals strengths. I think if you want to dig deep into the PF you could make your own presets then you may like the pedal more.

Also, I don't think Eventide is going to give a crap about your "word gets around forums pretty quickly" not-so-veiled threat. This pedal has been around for awhile and is a hit. Just sayin'.
 
#17
DeltaPhoenix said:
Also, I don't think Eventide is going to give a crap about your "word gets around forums pretty quickly" not-so-veiled threat. This pedal has been around for awhile and is a hit. Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

:eyebrow: I was just a little set back by the lack of information on it, it wasn't a threat. I watched a video where one of the programmers said they listen to their customers complaints and requests on a variety of forums. So that was me saying "We're talking about this, where you at?" Thanks for making sure I knew that my 'threat' was cute and adventurous though.....

I think though that since my ONLY gripe with the PF is lack of polyphony, I'm just gonna throw a mPOG in a midi FX loop so I can move on and explore all the PF's wonderful features without being hung up on initial disappointment. Molten Voltage makes a 4 channel midi FX loop much like a Lehle D.Loop but far less expensive that I think would render this problem temporarily solved if/when until Eventide passes on the outside in turn 4 on the next software patch.
 
#18
I've brought it up on the Eventide forums- even suggested a possible fix by adding a controllable input delay so the dsp can process the notes better for better polyphony (older Boss units had this option). No dice.
 

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