Playing 5-piece songs as a 4-piece

[lbbc]

We do stuff like that all the time. We start by learning the "signature" parts of the song and put it together. Right now we're learning Styx material and we don't have a keyboard player...

 

[bfields]

(Listens to "Black"....) I'm pretty sure that would take more than 5 people to reproduce exactly live. You need to either use backing tracks, or simplify a little--probably the latter. Decide what you think are the important parts, and divide them up between you. If you're stuck, googling around for live versions or covers can be a way to get ideas. You can get pretty creative while still giving people what they like about the song.

 

[lfmn16]

As the sole guitar player who faces this situation a lot, I'm confident you guys can pull this off by not sweating every detail. Yes, there are two guitars split stereo and there is also piano in the chorus, so forget about reproducing every phrase. What I do (and probably most sole guitars in this situation) is I pick out the most important parts and the tastiest parts and see how much I can squeeze in there without sounding like I'm over-playing or making it stressful.

"Black" is the kind of song that can be performed well with one guitar, especially if the bass/drums and singer are nailing it. Just let your guitar player know you have confidence and trust in him to pick out the best parts while maintaining the integrity of the chord progression, it will work out fine.

When you think of it, how many songs do you cover that are played by just drums, guitar and bass? Even early ZZ Top and Grand Funk Railroad overdubbed a 2nd guitar. I'm hard pressed to think of any songs that don't overdub something.

 

[lfmn16]

I play in a four-piece lineup (2 guitars, bass, drums). When one guitarist left (he got a real job), we decided not to rush into finding a replacement. So we played for a year as a trio. At first we were concerned about it--"How can we make a bigger sound?"--but in the end we decided to embrace sparseness, and enjoy the flexibility of the trio. Didn't hurt our ability to draw, at all. So...like any other new tune, just play it. Ideally, you'll find a way to make it work. Then play it out and see what reaction it gets. (We've had any number of songs that we were enthusiastic about, but did not work on the dance floor. You win some, you lose some.)

+1

Too many bands are afraid of space. They are just one big wall of sound. No dynamics. When I play guitar in trios I don't try to boost the sound during solos, I try to reduce sound when I'm playing rhythm. When I play bass in trios I don't try to fill the space with a bunch of wankery, I actually usually play a little more basic and try to push the groove a little harder.

 

[mrcbass]

This situation is exactly why I scorn the hard core "note for note" guys. It's a great talent and can be great for building personal libraries. But it makes it nearly impossible to incorporate cover songs that have different instrumentation than your band. I'm a firm believer in the "This is how we play this song" approach. There are lots of examples of successful covers by known artists who put their own spin on a song. Look at the Zep catalog for starters. A lot of the 60s wave of music were old blues or skittle tunes that were covered and crunched up a bit. And notoriously: elevator music where somebody makes very light versions of any genre in the world.

I'm not suggesting that you go to either of these extremes - they are just examples of different levels of instrumentation and the song is still recognized as the original song.

Any song - yes ANY - can by played by a single melodic instrument. Will it sound like the original? Probably not. Will the song be recognizable? Probably. And that's what important to your audience.

Yes, unless we are intentionally putting a new groove on a cover, it's good to capture the ambiance of a song, but there is just no reason to not arrange a song so that it fits the instrumentation you have. Be a musician and make music.

 

[DanGroove]

Played this song in a 3 piece and it still sounds great. i wouldn't worry about the other guitar. Play it and see before you stress over a problem that probably doesn't exist.

 

[micguy]

When Adrian Belew auditioned for David Bowie, there was one part of one tune that he had a really hard time working out the guitar part. As hard as he tried, he just couldn't get it. When he got to the audition, they called out that tune, and he...struggled through that part - did his best. The band stopped, and everyone is laughing - poor Adrian is sitting there, thinking he's just a sub standard guitarist (which kind of boggles the mind). Of course, he asks why they're all laughing, and they told him that that part on the record took 3 overdubs to create - it's not one guitar part, it's 3, and...he came damn close to nailing it.

The point is, when a tune has 2 guitar parts on a record, and you have one guitarist, they may be a way he can come up with a part that has the important elements of both parts. There may also be a way to do a completely different part that serves the tune without replicating either of the original parts exactly. Lots of bands do overdubs on records, and then go out and tour with less than that many guitarists - the original band may very well have the same issue that you do with it. So, either you play with tracks to fill stuff in or you do a different version.

I play church gigs. Some weekends, there are 2 acoustics, 2 electrics, keys, tracks, drums, 5 vocalists, and me. The next weekend, it might be just one electric guitarist, a drummer , a vocalist, and me. Recently I played a weekend, where there were zero guitarists - we had keys, a cellist, a drummer, and me. What I play (even if we play the same tune) changes depending on who I'm playing with. Lots of other instruments? I'm mostly staying in my lane, supplying low end, but not much else. Few other instruments? I'll supply more rhythmic, and even melodic stuff. My job is not to play a certain bass part - my job is to make the band sound good. Whatever that takes is what I do.

 

[JimmyM]

I once heard a 3-pc band kick much ass playing "Shining Star" by EWF when I was 14. After that, I realized there are no limitations.

 

[IBJammin]

The only place it may sound thin is during guitar solo, when the guitar isn't playing the wall of sound chords. Aside from pedals like reverb or chorus (or even distortion) to thicken your sound, try to hit root-octave or root-fifth-octave power chords on the downbeats of the chord changes (if i recall, is actually the & before 1 for most measures...).

 

[BobDeRosa]

Your bigger question seems to be "How close to the original does a cover tune need to be?" and I think the answer is to do the tune justice but make it your own in whatever unique way your band can. Make it sound like you, playing to your strengths. I'm sure even solo artists have covered this tune and it's come out great. If tunes are meant to be perfectly faithful to the original, why would anyone go to hear a cover band (a tribute band is somewhat different) rather than just listen to the original?

 

[51PRI]

...forget about reproducing every phrase. What I do ...is I pick out the most important parts.......

One thing I used to do (in a previous guitar, bass, drums, singer band) when I played guitar was to listen to the song, not on headphones, but on a cheap boombox. The most important parts will be much easier to pick out and you won't be distracted by the overdubs you hear on headphones.

When you think of it, how many songs do you cover that are played by just drums, guitar and bass? Even early ZZ Top and Grand Funk Railroad overdubbed a 2nd guitar. I'm hard pressed to think of any songs that don't overdub something.

Sure. Even the very first ZZ Top album, which touted no overdubs, DID have overdubs. Their later albums have a LOT of overdubs, and their live shows have pre-recorded parts and/or a second guitarist in the back somewhere.

I once heard a 3-pc band kick much ass playing "Shining Star" by EWF when I was 14. After that, I realized there are no limitations.

The band I was in (guitar, bass, drums, vocalist) did "Whipping Post" and we did it pretty darn well if I have to say so myself.

The only place it may sound thin is during guitar solo, when the guitar isn't playing the wall of sound chords.....

Don't play "wall of sound chords." Play partial chords and parts. Let the bass and drums hold down the rhythm.

 

[Rib 13]

. When I play bass in trios I don't try to fill the space with a bunch of wankery, I actually usually play a little more basic and try to push the groove a little harder.

Its a little of both for me: there is an art to playing 'spackle bass' in trios but, for me, it came from experience doing it for years. On some songs and arrangements theres plenty of room to fill PRN, especially covering absent horns or keys and can be quite fun and challenging if incorporating double stops or tapping but it has to be punctuated in the right key spots or else it will, as you say, sound a lot like wanking if just doing it from start to finish arbitrarily.....on the flip side, there are plenty of songs to play less and let the space fill it in.....the biggest thing to consider was always what the drummer was doing: the more washy cymbals being used, the less spackle bass......

 

[51PRI]

Its a little of both for me: there is an art to playing 'spackle bass' in trios....

What is 'spackle bass?'

 

[Rib 13]

What is 'spackle bass?'

The bass version of this

 

[electracoyote]

One thing I used to do (in a previous guitar, bass, drums, singer band) when I played guitar was to listen to the song, not on headphones, but on a cheap boombox. The most important parts will be much easier to pick out and you won't be distracted by the overdubs you hear on headphones.

That's great advice, and probably what I've been doing subconsciously. Sometimes even the simplest songs have some very interesting and complex sweeteners going on; if you listen with a great stereo field and high fidelity you hear everything, and it can get overwhelming. The old car radio from a distance approach helps you filter it down to the essentials. Then throw the nuanced fiddly bits in if you can, but don't worry about them if you can't. Ditch the phones, step away from the boombox...now you're hearing what most of your audience hears (especially in pre-ear bud days).

 

[Topkat13]

Y’all ain’t PJ…play your version and enjoy life.

 

[wazzel]

Just play the damm song. If you do a good job no body will notice the missing guitar parts. My brother and I do Black as a two peace when we jam. It comes out fine. As in good enough I would play it in from of a crowd with no issues fine.

 

[coy garcia]

Not sure where to post this so mods, please move if in the wrong section.

Anyway, I'm in a standard 4-piece band (singer, guitar, drums, me on bass) and we're doing mainly covers. We have been tossing around the idea of adding "Black" by Pearl Jam to our set, and this being a song originally by a 5-piece band, I've always thought that the arrangement was pretty big sounding; I'm worried that with having only one guitarist, if we take on this song it may sound a little sparse. Getting someone else to play guitar with us would be hard as we would have to find someone and fit them in before a gig we have in about a week, and since they would play only on this one song, it would be highly impractical. Does anyone have any suggestions for how we can tweak our playing/arrangement of the song to fill the space better? Granted, we haven't rehearsed this song yet but I have a feeling this may be an issue as we have a similar problem during the guitar solo section of "Hotel California."

P.S. I am the one who suggested this song, as we all have pretty equal says on what goes. Me and the guitarist really want to do this tune and the rest of the band are down, so I would appreciate it if people held off with the "just pick another song" type responses, thanks. If it really does not sound good, we will drop the song anyway haha.

I play in a 1 guitar, 1 bass, 1 drummer situation and we cover anything. Hotel California sounds good 3pc as long as the bass is played exactly like the record (root, 5th, octaves), the guitar player has a harmony pedal to build the solo at the end. On other tunes where a 2nd guitar is needed during a solo I use a octave with distortion...I hit the pedal right when the solo starts to fill up the sound and keep the bass simple...sometimes I leave it on rest of the song. Hope this helps.

 

[Outshined91]

Thanks for all the input guys. We will definitely just play through the song first and see how it sounds. We are not one of those "note for note" bands, and especially as we have a female vocalist, most songs already have our own sound so I don't think this is something we'll shy away from. I'll make sure the guitarist learns a couple of the melody bits so he can put those in somewhere, but I think he will make good calls on that. Speaking of which the guitarist and I will probably be doing backing vocals with the "doo doo doo, etc." part (pardon my French haha), so that should make things sound nice and more melodious anyway.

The octave and fifths thing is a nice tip - that is exactly what I am doing during the solo portions of "Hotel California" and it sounds pretty good, as I can fill a little space but still maintain the harmony. On "Black," Jeff Ament already plays octaves for the louder parts of the song so I'll see how everything sounds first. Will report back after rehearsal!

 

[teh-slb]