Playing bass at jams when guitars use capos

[BassChuck]

If they don't know the key, ask them to play the last chord of the song, find that and go. I too get annoyed at people who don't know key or other basic things about what they're doing. I think everyone should know as much as they can about what they are doing, otherwise they are very likely to get elected to public office.

 

[xUptheIronsx]

If the guitarist doesn't know what key he's in but you can read the chord shapes that are being played, do the same thing and move what you play up the same number of frets that they capo.

This is pretty much what I do. Knowing my major scale fingering pattern, I just root my 2 finger on the capo'd fret and go from there. After that, it is just knowing what the changes are.

 

[GregT]

Thursday will be my second time doing this at the open mic. I think I will do better this week. If they could just call out the key it would be easier, but they really don't know. Looking forward to getting better at it though.

 

[Old Blastard]

Thursday will be my second time doing this at the open mic. I think I will do better this week. If they could just call out the key it would be easier, but they really don't know. Looking forward to getting better at it though.

It's pretty rough when the players don't know what key they're in.

 

[1954bassman]

I am honestly perplexed by this thread. Whether the guitar player is using a capo, or playing in alternate tuning, whatever does not affect the chord pattern. Finding the key of a song should actually be a "no-brainer" for a bass player. Rarely do I struggle to find the "one" or key of a song. This would especially be true at "jam" sessions that are just that - jamming. In most of my playing situations, I couldn't tell you if the guitarist is using a capo or not. And when I play acoustic rhythm guitar, if the song is in Eb or Bb, rest assured I will use a capo.

I do not mean to sound brash, so forgive me if I do. My suggestion to the OP would be to work on your "key-finding" skills. (is that a word?). Practice at home with songs you are unfamiliar with and work on finding the key they are in. Eventually it will come very easy to almost immediately know what key you are playing in, and also recognize the chord pattern.

 

[Winfred]

I am honestly perplexed by this thread. Whether the guitar player is using a capo, or playing in alternate tuning, whatever does not affect the chord pattern. Finding the key of a song should actually be a "no-brainer" for a bass player. Rarely do I struggle to find the "one" or key of a song. This would especially be true at "jam" sessions that are just that - jamming. In most of my playing situations, I couldn't tell you if the guitarist is using a capo or not. And when I play acoustic rhythm guitar, if the song is in Eb or Bb, rest assured I will use a capo.

I do not mean to sound brash, so forgive me if I do. My suggestion to the OP would be to work on your "key-finding" skills. (is that a word?). Practice at home with songs you are unfamiliar with and work on finding the key they are in. Eventually it will come very easy to almost immediately know what key you are playing in, and also recognize the chord pattern.

I think the OP is having trouble with guitarists that don't play the song in the key he learned it in. And they change the key on him by slapping a capo on a guitar, about 2 seconds before the song starts.

Let's say our hard-working OP learned a Tom Petty song in A. Now here comes "Mr. Guitar/Singer" on stage. He also learned the song in A, but he doesn't like singing it in A. So he slaps a capo on his guitar on the second fret, but he still plays an A chord to start the song, because that's how he learned it.

Well now the song is in B. So our young OP bassist is trying to figure out how the chord progression plays out over the fretboard, while the song is going on.

For a couple of old farts like us, no biggie. But for guys that are fairly new to playing, it can be a headache. Especially if they learned the tune in A, and they used lots of open strings for the bassline.

I "think" that's what the OP means.

EDIT: Forgive me if I'm way off and goofy about this. I've been sick for a few days, so I'm home and heavily medicated.

 

[GregT]

I am actually 58. I'm just new to playing bass at acoustic jams. A lot of the songs aren't just 1-4-5s because that would be no problem. It is the off chords that mostly are messing me up. Last night I was playing bass at an electric jam and I couldn't see the guitarists hands at all, but still no problem; I could hear where he was. It is just that at the acoustic jams, they will end a song with the capo at the second fret and move it to the sixth and start. It is just a good challenge and I actually got some great advice. I just seized an opportunity at the acoustic jams to play more bass. They wouldn't let me get off the stage with each new act. I was doing something right, but I sure knew I could be doing better.

 

[1954bassman]

you're on the right track, it will get easier.

 

[zontar]

This can be a handy idea--
Since I play guitar it helps when I see a capo--but still this chart would help.

 

[Hahaha]

Speaking of keys, what I find mildly amusing are guitarists who think that whatever chord the song starts in is the key of the song. Pretty Woman is a good example. "We do it in E". No, you do it in A. Sometimes that can be a little confusing if it's a song you've never heard. Some song I played recently kept going from the I to the II7, then to the V for a longer than usual amount of time. I figured out that the song started on the IV, then went to the V7, then to the I. Before I figured out what was happening I was thinking it was a really weird song.

My favorite jam night experience was playing with three guitarists with capos who agreed on a song, then proceeded to play it in three different keys. It was like being at Baskin Robbin's 31 flavors. I had my choice of keys to play it in. I should have picked a key that none of them were in. If it's going to suck, it may as well really suck! I find it hard not to laugh when that stuff happens. Sometimes the train wrecks are the most fun part of the gig. It's fun to see the expressions on the less experienced players as they realize the song is going off a cliff and there's no way to stop it.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

We used to vacation in Mountain View, Ark. Acoustic jamming all day and night around the RV parks and the down town court house. Song called and out come the capos. I ask one of the older guys why he played all the songs with a capo and he said; "Well all I know how to play in is G so that is what I do....

 

[Cowboy in Latvia]

I'm not sure why folks can't simply play the appropriate chords for the keys required by their voices, but...whatever. I guess not everyone wants to be a guitarist, but would rather just be a singer with a "reasonable" ability to accompany themselves.

There are several reasons for this. I am not calling you out, just making general statements regarding the use of capos. No disrespect is intended.

• A capo actually changes the overtone series for the instrument and gives it a completely different sound. This sound can be useful and create a better sonic palette with which to work for a given song.
• Only an idiot ignores a useful tool. The capo is a great tool for the novice and pro alike.
• You try playing nothing but barre chords for a 3-hour set and let me know how that works out for ya.

I know it makes our lives more difficult but that's what being a musician is. I would rather the song be pitched appropriately and just deal with the placement of a capo than have a song sound like poo because we were stuck with first position chords all night.

 

[quickfix]

There are several reasons for this. I am not calling you out, just making general statements regarding the use of capos. No disrespect is intended.

• A capo actually changes the overtone series for the instrument and gives it a completely different sound. This sound can be useful and create a better sonic palette with which to work for a given song.

Great if you're a bluegrasser and want your guitar to sound like a mandolin.

• [/QUOTE]Only an idiot ignores a useful tool. The capo is a great tool for the novice and pro alike.[/QUOTE]

Yes, for changing strings.

• [/QUOTE]You try playing nothing but barre chords for a 3-hour set and let me know how that works out for ya.[/QUOTE]

Really? Capo on 2 and play G shape doesn't require barre chords. Learn to play in A.
However, if you want to sing in Eb, or Bb, or F for three hours, just say so. My hand can take it.

[/QUOTE]I know it makes our lives more difficult but that's what being a musician is. I would rather the song be pitched appropriately and just deal with the placement of a capo than have a song sound like poo because we were stuck with first position chords all night.[/QUOTE]

I'm never stuck in first position chords all night. Even playing in A barre with D9 and E9 is not a problem for the right song.
Try key changing in the middle of a song by repositioning a capo. Tell me how that works out for you.

No disrespect intended.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

I'm never stuck in first position chords all night. Even playing in A barre with D9 and E9 is not a problem for the right song.
Try key changing in the middle of a song by repositioning a capo. Tell me how that works out for you.

No disrespect intended.

there is some capo designed exacly for this, to be moved when you want

 

[Clef_de_fa]

There are several reasons for this. I am not calling you out, just making general statements regarding the use of capos. No disrespect is intended.

• A capo actually changes the overtone series for the instrument and gives it a completely different sound. This sound can be useful and create a better sonic palette with which to work for a given song.
• Only an idiot ignores a useful tool. The capo is a great tool for the novice and pro alike.
• You try playing nothing but barre chords for a 3-hour set and let me know how that works out for ya.

I know it makes our lives more difficult but that's what being a musician is. I would rather the song be pitched appropriately and just deal with the placement of a capo than have a song sound like poo because we were stuck with first position chords all night.

Yeah you can see a capo as a movable nut, so even your set of harmonics will be different and in different places

 

[quickfix]

there is some capo designed exacly for this, to be moved when you want[/QUOTE

Cool.

 

[jamro217]

I say fight fire with fire. Next time bring your fretless (preferably unlined without side dots) and just use sweeping glissandos all night. Eventually you'll find the right key. Remember, a clock that doesn't work is still right twice a day. You might even get a chance to use a new pickup line: "Did you ever see so many seasick people on dry land?"

 

[quickfix]

I understand there is a place for the capo, but at the jams and shows I play at, none of those are prevalent. The capo was used by people who couldn't play in other keys. Can't play in C, or A, or E, or D. They could only play in G. I get that, but as I said earlier, they aren't actually guitarists, but rather singers who like to accompany themselves on the guitar. That's fair.

I even pushed my wife to be competent in all keys. The few barre chords that were essential are F#, Bm, and one or two others. But with those few barre chords she could play any song in any key using cowboy/first position chords. All of them. Next up are poly chords for #dim to use as passing chords anywhere on the neck.

 

[Cowboy in Latvia]

Oh yes, something I forgot in my earlier list.

• A capo can provide more favorable chord voicing as compared to the same first-position chord.

By the way, love the "handy dandy capo chart" MalcolmAmos. Thanks for posting it. I will absolutely be using that this summer at some open jams back home.

 

[you_never_know]

I'm not sure why folks can't simply play the appropriate chords for the keys required by their voices, but...whatever. I guess not everyone wants to be a guitarist, but would rather just be a singer with a "reasonable" ability to accompany themselves.

Ah, well, it's not exactly that simple. I used to wonder why a clarinet played a Bb when you told them to play a C, and why they just couldn't adapt. It just doesn't work. Open chords on a guitar sound different than chords in other positions. You use a capo so you can still play those sounds, but in the key that you need.