I am curious about how many of you stick to a basic pattern when playing a 12 bar blues and how many of you (like me) have a basic framework and just improvise most of the song.
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PLAYING BLUES
- Thread starter rymiraflores
- Start date
I improvise, but how much of it I do often depends on the song and how many instruments are in the band. In one of my bands, there was no rhythm guitar, so when the lead guitar started doing his thing, I tended to do more improvisation during the solo to fill in the cracks as it were.
Yah, im kinda locked into a method when it comes to 12-bar blues. I always hit the root on the 1st beat of the measure---what comes after varies somewhat but id like to wiggle out of that rut. Invariably, i end up going back to the root-note-on-the-one mode. *sobs*
On a basic 12-bar I tend to pick a pattern and stick to it pretty much. Mainly so the soloists know what is going to be behind them. Thu guys I play with don't have the chops to contend with an over excited rhythm section.
I try to add little things just to keep it fresh.
But, in duo's or trio's you can't stray to far.
Depends a lot for me on the song and the band.
If I'm playing with a keyboard player, I try to be careful, especially on swing numbers where he may likely double my line. If you're not in sync, it's mud city, unless you find the rare bird that's content to stay out of our range.
On jazzy style swings, I will embellish during solos, especially if I can play off the soloist.
Traditional box shuffles and things like that I play pretty straight with the occasional tweak in a walkup or turn.
Slow blues, I really enjoy varying the line, with the specific aim of building and releasing tension and momentum.
That said, IMHO, the bread and butter of being a good blues bassist is to hold down the damn groove and be the canvas upon which the soloists paint.
If I'm playing with a keyboard player, I try to be careful, especially on swing numbers where he may likely double my line. If you're not in sync, it's mud city, unless you find the rare bird that's content to stay out of our range.
On jazzy style swings, I will embellish during solos, especially if I can play off the soloist.
Traditional box shuffles and things like that I play pretty straight with the occasional tweak in a walkup or turn.
Slow blues, I really enjoy varying the line, with the specific aim of building and releasing tension and momentum.
That said, IMHO, the bread and butter of being a good blues bassist is to hold down the damn groove and be the canvas upon which the soloists paint.
I hear some of the less experienced local jam players trying to embellish by playing a lot of blues scale licks. This is fine for the guitar but, in general, I think it needs to be used sparingly on the bass, particularly in a walking blues.
There's nothing wrong in hitting the root on the one and being consistent in your patterns. If you think more about where you play the notes as opposed to what notes you play you'll be more in demand as a blues bass player imho.
There's nothing wrong in hitting the root on the one and being consistent in your patterns. If you think more about where you play the notes as opposed to what notes you play you'll be more in demand as a blues bass player imho.
Yeah I think I missed the memo that said playing the root-on-the-one made you less of bassist. I always thought that was the whole point.
Disclaimer: I don't usually play blues, so here have grain of salt first...
I used to think the blues (like Latin music) was patently simple in nature.
"It's just I7-IV7-V7,, shuffle the 8th notes, throw in a some chromatics and presto! a blues bass line!"
1 hour of this approach would quickly bore both the player and the listner.
But, like Latin music, on analysis it just ain't the case.
A quick look at any Blues Bass book reveals a broad spectrum of bass lines,
each with its own rhythmic identity and tonal feel.
The tradition is rich and deep enought that, with some effort and planning,
you can give every tune its own distinct feel.
I guess I'm sayign that IMHO, less improvising and more planning
would be the approach I'd take to avoid comign accross
as playign the same song for 1 hour...
I used to think the blues (like Latin music) was patently simple in nature.
"It's just I7-IV7-V7,, shuffle the 8th notes, throw in a some chromatics and presto! a blues bass line!"
1 hour of this approach would quickly bore both the player and the listner.
But, like Latin music, on analysis it just ain't the case.
A quick look at any Blues Bass book reveals a broad spectrum of bass lines,
each with its own rhythmic identity and tonal feel.
The tradition is rich and deep enought that, with some effort and planning,
you can give every tune its own distinct feel.
I guess I'm sayign that IMHO, less improvising and more planning
would be the approach I'd take to avoid comign accross
as playign the same song for 1 hour...
Disclaimer, i know my blues playing job as a bassist.
To further Mambo4s excellent post, let me say that structure to build on is the key.
If you just jam away making up lines you fail to understand your role in the big scheme of things. You as the bassist, like the drummer in Blues, are there to be a foundation and a structure that allows others to jam away making up lines.
If you are with players of the highest calibre of Blues understanding then you will be able to have some liberty with what you do because these players are qualified enough to recognise what you are doing and make the most of it.
Point 1 about Blues jams is that they have a short time for any player to show their worth, so the lead player will cram all his licks and chops into that time to prove his worth to the determent of the song and the others around him.
Point 2 Blues is about the words, its message is in being able to hear the story being told, not the music or its format. Again this is where songs at jam session fail because the players tend to forget the message and concentrate on thier playing.
Point 3 In a jam situation no-one can be stringer than the weakest player on stage, so as he cannot come up to the higher level, everyone come down to him..even if it is way below you skill base. By exposing the weak link you expose the song to fail.
Point 4 Blues has a history and a respect of what has gone before needs to be held up for it to go forward. This is in how it is played, not what it is played on. If the playing moves out of the what defines blues then it stops becoming Blues, you in essence change it into something else. This is part of the challange, to find new ways of expessing it will keeping it in the spirit of all before.
Even though all i have said applies to jams, it is at the jams you learn these points to take to your own music and playing.
As a rhythm section if you lay the foundation and outline the structure, you can allow the players around you to play and improvise. In a band situation their playing will work out what works, what does not, what sounds good, and what sound great...they will then settle on playing this way everytime. But if your rhythm section is jamming everytime, then every song will sound and feel the same because no one has the control.
That said it does not mean you cannot change what you do, once this settled period is in you can make subtles changes and develop it further, but it is developing within the spirit of the song. As it is now an established song you have to be true to its spirit, if you have a following and the song is a favourite, then you really do not want to change it from what fans identify it as. The bass line to many songs i play today have evolved on from the ones i recorded in the studio.
So as i have witnessed and to my experience solid structure, that allows you to set up lead players while supporting the the players around you ensures the music and therefore the song and therefore the performance is good.
To this end i have a vast library of structures to call from which i use with any drummer in any playing situations i find myself in that to the layman may sound like we are jamming, but to the players let them know what they shouldn't do rather than what the can do.
Blues if we look at it has many many layers that can be exposed and played to if players have the patience and knowlege to expose them, rather than burying them under the weight of cliche.
For example if you want to help your lines swing better, then listen to Count Bassie and the Duke Ellington Big Bands. They are playing to a foundation and a structure everytime, but this lets the playing shine through and no one can say they are going through the motions because each performance is so on it.
To further Mambo4s excellent post, let me say that structure to build on is the key.
If you just jam away making up lines you fail to understand your role in the big scheme of things. You as the bassist, like the drummer in Blues, are there to be a foundation and a structure that allows others to jam away making up lines.
If you are with players of the highest calibre of Blues understanding then you will be able to have some liberty with what you do because these players are qualified enough to recognise what you are doing and make the most of it.
Point 1 about Blues jams is that they have a short time for any player to show their worth, so the lead player will cram all his licks and chops into that time to prove his worth to the determent of the song and the others around him.
Point 2 Blues is about the words, its message is in being able to hear the story being told, not the music or its format. Again this is where songs at jam session fail because the players tend to forget the message and concentrate on thier playing.
Point 3 In a jam situation no-one can be stringer than the weakest player on stage, so as he cannot come up to the higher level, everyone come down to him..even if it is way below you skill base. By exposing the weak link you expose the song to fail.
Point 4 Blues has a history and a respect of what has gone before needs to be held up for it to go forward. This is in how it is played, not what it is played on. If the playing moves out of the what defines blues then it stops becoming Blues, you in essence change it into something else. This is part of the challange, to find new ways of expessing it will keeping it in the spirit of all before.
Even though all i have said applies to jams, it is at the jams you learn these points to take to your own music and playing.
As a rhythm section if you lay the foundation and outline the structure, you can allow the players around you to play and improvise. In a band situation their playing will work out what works, what does not, what sounds good, and what sound great...they will then settle on playing this way everytime. But if your rhythm section is jamming everytime, then every song will sound and feel the same because no one has the control.
That said it does not mean you cannot change what you do, once this settled period is in you can make subtles changes and develop it further, but it is developing within the spirit of the song. As it is now an established song you have to be true to its spirit, if you have a following and the song is a favourite, then you really do not want to change it from what fans identify it as. The bass line to many songs i play today have evolved on from the ones i recorded in the studio.
So as i have witnessed and to my experience solid structure, that allows you to set up lead players while supporting the the players around you ensures the music and therefore the song and therefore the performance is good.
To this end i have a vast library of structures to call from which i use with any drummer in any playing situations i find myself in that to the layman may sound like we are jamming, but to the players let them know what they shouldn't do rather than what the can do.
Blues if we look at it has many many layers that can be exposed and played to if players have the patience and knowlege to expose them, rather than burying them under the weight of cliche.
For example if you want to help your lines swing better, then listen to Count Bassie and the Duke Ellington Big Bands. They are playing to a foundation and a structure everytime, but this lets the playing shine through and no one can say they are going through the motions because each performance is so on it.
I usually have three different patterns figured out for turnarounds / key changes. Other than that, I keep it really simple. People want to hear the solo instruments. I like to be sure that the harmonica/guitar player knows where I'm going to be at any given moment and avoid embarrassing surprises.
As I understand it, it's keep the one on 1, 4 and 5 and hold the groove down inbetween. What notes can go into the groove depend on personal skill and taste, which tbh, I'm not the strongest on, but I do hold down the pocket. Sometimes I'll peek my head above ground just for the sake of trying, but my main focus is to hold that pocket together and make it feel good for the other players and listeners.
My main interest with my playing (even being new) is blues, so I've been doing some theory reading and so on, and been jamming it up; I basically stick to the basics, maybe fluff up a bit here and there, but it's what works best when accompanied by my friendly guitard.
Not sure if blues really lends itself to a lot of fancy playing, in my experience with blues (been listening to it since I was born practically) is that less is more.
Just my 2 rupiah
Not sure if blues really lends itself to a lot of fancy playing, in my experience with blues (been listening to it since I was born practically) is that less is more.
Just my 2 rupiah
I think the style of blues will also weigh heavily on how you support the groove.It's Important to realize that within the blues family there are a vast array of rhythmic styles, tempos, rhythms, and feels. I had conversation with an amazingly experienced and talented drummer I know, who pays his bills with blues gigs. He explained that you have to be able to nail any style when someone calls it
elta blues, Chicago blues, jump blues etc etc...I don't know thing one about what those are, but knowing they exist , I'd educate myself before jumping into any serious blues gig.
I think the style of blues will also weigh heavily on how you support the groove.It's Important to realize that within the blues family there are a vast array of rhythmic styles, tempos, rhythms, and feels. I had conversation with an amazingly experienced and talented drummer I know, who pays his bills with blues gigs. He explained that you have to be able to nail any style when someone calls it
Good point! In my case, playing the drums for many years means I don't need to worry about that part of it so I guess I'm lucky in that way.
Not sure I agree with this.
The note choices that lead from one change to the next are entirely dictated by the tune & its interpretation. You've got to listen to everyone else & then judge what's going to complement the vibe.
This can be a tough call - especially at an open mic/jam night - but it makes a difference.
I do both. It depends on the tune, on the players, on the setting, and my mood. On some tunes I play very basic riffs and never deviate. Sort of like funk, pound the one! On other tunes I mix it up within the frame work of the basic riff. But...I never stray from the beat! Meter is everything to me. I would rather play root/5 and be in time than have super chops and no time.
BTW...I don't do open mic/jams anymore. Way too much wanking for me!
BTW...I don't do open mic/jams anymore. Way too much wanking for me!
Well what bassinplace is saying essentially will seperate a good player from a bad player in as much as how they influence the choices of others with there own choices.
A good rhythm section will dominate the other players within the structure, it has to. By dominate i mean imply where the song goes and its use of dynamics. If you are listening to others, then you have to hope they are listening to you, but usually they have the structure they want in their heads and to hell with anyone else. That is why you must dominate them but in a eay they do not realise it, that is the trade of a good players.
But jams are not jams by nature for lead players because most of the time they know what they want to play. In most jam situations the piano, guitar, harp, sax etc will have a song/songs they know and will ask others to support it, where as they are generally reluctant to play songs they don't know.
If you go to a jam for long enough you will see the same players usually play the same songs or adapt them to fit other similar songs. They will even discuss song choice and format, who will do what to the exclusion of the rhythm section. I have lost count of the amount of times they come out of there huddle and start a count off and i have to go " woah woah there, what are we doing"? back comes "slow blues." "Major or minor"? i ask.
"does it matter"? came back one reply. This is why you have to dominate them, because they only serve themselves not the song.
Because song stucture is dictated by the use of the 1 4 5 it is an easy structure for all to follow, but what goes into and is added on to this structure is the substance of the song...some player will bring more than other.
To quote the great Eric Morcambe " i'm not playing all the wrong notes, i'm playing all the right notes.......but not neccesarly in the right order."
The style of the tune is important. I always pay attention to what kind of comping is going on (ya know, like that thing the guitar does that includes the 5th, 6th, and sometimes b7th). You best coincide with those notes. I must say, having played a lot of blues on guitar has helped me with my bass lines. Generally, I try to find an appropriate pattern that fits the harmony that's going on. Some blues uses the b7 a lot and some just sticks with the 6th, for instance. Then there's the thing about whether to walk or do something else. Sometimes the b3 comes in, sometimes not. Sometimes all the chords are minor, but usually, they're all dominant 7 chords.
One thing's for sure, ya can't just play whatever you like. You have to fit in, and that takes some experience and serious listening. It can be difficult in a jam situation when you don't know the tunes. But, it can be done well by those who are skilled at it. Personally, I don't play public jams anymore, but I do enjoy jamming at the Blues Shack with my good friends. We have a blues/rock project going on. It is amazing to feel how much the bass line affects the song when we jam. Because we are not out in public we each get to experiment. It is a great tool for me to see what works and what doesn't.
Unless you know the tune and what the bass part should be like it's best to find a simple pattern and stick with it for the most part, I think. It helps keep everyone else on the same page, too, feel-wise. Without the groove, it's all junk.
One thing's for sure, ya can't just play whatever you like. You have to fit in, and that takes some experience and serious listening. It can be difficult in a jam situation when you don't know the tunes. But, it can be done well by those who are skilled at it. Personally, I don't play public jams anymore, but I do enjoy jamming at the Blues Shack with my good friends. We have a blues/rock project going on. It is amazing to feel how much the bass line affects the song when we jam. Because we are not out in public we each get to experiment. It is a great tool for me to see what works and what doesn't.
Unless you know the tune and what the bass part should be like it's best to find a simple pattern and stick with it for the most part, I think. It helps keep everyone else on the same page, too, feel-wise. Without the groove, it's all junk.
