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Playing for enjoyment vs. becoming a virtuoso?

#41
Long time ago I considered attempting to be a professional as well; and like ET3 Hernandez, wisely decided to go into the military. Thing was, I knew folks 35 years ago that could play just as well as today's Vic Wooten, Les Claypool...keep naming names. But in order to make a living doing it, as has been pointed out, you've got to please someone else. There's lots of session players that can reproduce anybody's sound and technique - that's what they get paid to do. They just don't happen to have a unique sound, or be in a unique sounding group and never got some wax peddler's attention.
I try to learn interesting riffs for the pleasure of being able to amuse myself. I play with friends soley for the fun of that. In order to do both of those things well enough to please myself, I find I have to practice scales, Bach organ fugue basslines and other little drills - no different than an amateur tennis player who knocks balls off a wall. Not much of a game if you can't return your partner's serves.
I think the virtuosos out there have (a) raw talent in the form of good hearing, finger dexterity and whatever else it is and (b) practice their a****s off - trying to do things they can't do, which is unpleasant hard work. The reason we know who they are is because they have a unique sound and managed to get a promoter's attention.
 
#42
when i started playing bass, i was 19. my progress was very fast, a lot of old players thought that i was playing for years, but that time i was just playing only for 3 months. i was agressive and show off. then one time during an audition, i met this very very good bass player. i knew him personally, we jam a lot. he plays lead, i play the groove. but when i saw him play live, he was so simple, but very solid. i felt so ashamed of myself, i got limited knwledge of bass and trying to show off, while this guy, just laid it out with simplicity, ease and smooth. from that time, i became like him, not as good as him but tried to play like him. solid, in the pocket, no flash. that year also, i said to myself, when i'm 30, i will be the best in my country. now i'm 38, working musician abroad, i'm with the same band for 9 years now, bored of playing with them but no choice because it's my JOB. i'm not bad at all, a lot of people say i'm a good player. but i'm not the best either. all i have is my years of experience. i managed to get some studio sessions, but not that much. i play in hotels and pubs, it's my way of living. why did this happen? well, i became busy with family, personal and band problems, i get fed up from time to time. i stop and then i start practicing again. i'm not consistent. i have a dream that someday to play in a big stadium, but right now i can't see any lights that leads to that. i do the thing that i love for LIVING. sad but true. but i'm always saying to myself, it's never too late to achieve a dream, i just need to continue practicing and learning. play with my heart and try to be good, but i guess not the best. i'm a realistic person, i know what i can and what i can't reach. for now i just wanna be good, again. and i think i'm doing just fine right now.:)
 
#44
phatbass30 said:
when i started playing bass, i was 19. my progress was very fast, a lot of old players thought that i was playing for years, but that time i was just playing only for 3 months. i was agressive and show off. then one time during an audition, i met this very very good bass player. i knew him personally, we jam a lot. he plays lead, i play the groove. but when i saw him play live, he was so simple, but very solid. i felt so ashamed of myself, i got limited knwledge of bass and trying to show off, while this guy, just laid it out with simplicity, ease and smooth. from that time, i became like him, not as good as him but tried to play like him. solid, in the pocket, no flash. that year also, i said to myself, when i'm 30, i will be the best in my country. now i'm 38, working musician abroad, i'm with the same band for 9 years now, bored of playing with them but no choice because it's my JOB. i'm not bad at all, a lot of people say i'm a good player. but i'm not the best either. all i have is my years of experience. i managed to get some studio sessions, but not that much. i play in hotels and pubs, it's my way of living. why did this happen? well, i became busy with family, personal and band problems, i get fed up from time to time. i stop and then i start practicing again. i'm not consistent. i have a dream that someday to play in a big stadium, but right now i can't see any lights that leads to that. i do the thing that i love for LIVING. sad but true. but i'm always saying to myself, it's never too late to achieve a dream, i just need to continue practicing and learning. play with my heart and try to be good, but i guess not the best. i'm a realistic person, i know what i can and what i can't reach. for now i just wanna be good, again. and i think i'm doing just fine right now.:)
Click to expand...

Now, if you think you miss something, even if you were super-super-good, it is like winning a lottery ticket for getting to a position to either play original material with technical chops (that market is tiny) or end up in a big band playing arenas, but seldom with any technical skills needed, still a lottery system where very, very few could get to that point.

It's never late to just start side projects and do more complex music with other musicians who like playing such material. It is actually quite good, as you could play out things you really want to play from time to time, but don't have a chance doing with the regular band(s).

Attending jam sessions is another way to let the creativity out.

I'm myself not that interesting in complex technical skills, rather how to take an instrument with four or five strings, that really belongs side by side with the percussion/drumming section, and make it swing and at the same time sound creative. That's a really good challenge. As part of that some more technical skills that I have is required, so that's my motivation to do boring exercises to get to the chops and scales I want to play as part of the low end rumble.

--Kent
 
#45
I just want to play and write good music.

My dream was to be a success in a band context.
Didn't happen and I took a few side trips (straight jobs, school).
I did support myself for a few years as a pro in cover bands and starved in a few original bands.

I feel I didn't promote myself enough, didn't make the most of some opportunities, or lay out goals and come up with strategies to hit those goals.

But, no worries and no regrets. I've had some GREAT times on and off the musical trail!

I play well and am still learning a lot! I feel very fortunate!!
 
#46
There's no way in the world I could ever become a virtuoso even if I wanted to. I've worked in the trades and trade-related fields all my life and my hands have really taken a beating. You can only break so many bones and get so many stitches before the dexterity suffers. I had to give up guitar and keyboards about 18 years ago and switched to bass.Been loving it ever since. Been with my current band about three years now. Talented players and singers but real raw rookies. I hold every thing together. That's my job. I hang in the background thumping away, just getting off on the groove, the audience, and the floor show. I'll be fifty-five in a few months and the fact that I can still stand up there for two or three hours holding up a very heavy bass(Alembic Spoiler) and haul equipment at 2am just thrills me to no end. I look to the Stanley Clarke and Marcus Miller types as a great inspiration but the Timothy B. Schmidt, Tom Hamilton, and Paul McCartney types taught me how to have fun with the bass. I guess it all boils down to what gives you the most reward. BTW, I played a gig with this band about a year ago with my left hand, my fret hand, all bandaged up. I ripped open my hand between my pinkie and ring finger that day and played the gig with a bunch of stitches and a lot of pain, but, as they say, the show must go on.
John
 
#47
I always want to improve, but I'm also very lazy...so I usually only practice a couple hours per week...I really need to work on my motivation as most days it's just not there after getting home from work, exercising and cooking dinner/doing chores :scowl: I also had carpal tunnel so that destroyed my motivation when I actually had the chance to be really good, at least now with my reduced playing it doesn't bother me anymore.

Most of my favorite bass lines are relatively simple anyway :smug:
 
#48
I started playing three years ago because I wanted to be the bass player at my church. Three years later, that is exactly what I am. Not a very challenging gig but the little ol' ladies at church think I am doing a fine job and I enjoy the fellowship that comes from being part of the choir.

My other bass ambition was to play jazz, and two years ago I had the opportunity to play with the Jazz Ensemble at my college (I am a Math instructor). I still play with them, and my goal is to improve as a jazz musician, maybe even start my own trio, and so the challenge for me is to develop that side of my playing. I have Ed Friedland's "Building Walking Bass Lines" but don't use it nearly as much as I should.

But the best part of playing bass has been its effect on my children. My 13-year-old son plays drums and piano and my 8-year-old daughter plays piano. We jam at least once a week.
 
#49
I started playing bass last November, but I've played guitar for 35 years. It's the same thing in the guitar world. Some guys want to be the next Hendrix or Clapton, but that's an excercise in futility. You are what you are, no more and no less, and as long as your goals are not to be the next SRV but rather to be the best you can be (to paraphrase the Army theme) you'll be all right. That's all I'm aspiring to in my foray into the bass world. Hold down a groove, get to know the fretboard, and have a blast playing this wonderful and fun-to-play instrument.
 
#51
I saw this thread bumped, i had forgotten i posted earlier.

but today my reaction the the thread was a little different...

I read: "Playing for enjoyment vs. becoming a virtuoso?"

It thought: what about playing for the audience?

I suppose that personal enjoyment is probably a given for most of us. Aiming for virtuosity can seem like a 'higher' motivation than selfish pleasure, but the older I get the more I see communicating some kind of joy (or moment of musical absorption) to the listener as a worthy motivation.

just a thought...
 
#52
I Love playing Bass. Im only young so I like to think i can only get better. I try to play with as many musicians as possible and learn from them. There will always be better players than you but if you do a job playing the bass and it works for the song then in my opinion, you are a good player.
 
#53
I've spent quite some fair time working in some sort of customer service related work, I'm thankful it's taught me that the world should slow down a little.

I play because I love the sound the bass makes, I play for myself and if that look on life turns me into a virtuoso, so be it. If not all I have lost is a lifetime bringing joy into someone's life, even if it's only mine.
 
#54
I have a full time real job and a social life and all that so virtuosity is already out of the question. I'm just trying to have fun, make music that I enjoy and have a record I give to my grandkids as an mp73 one day.

That being said I have a specific set of goals in mind, stuff like...be able to competently play Jazz, be able to transcribe with ease...ext. These are all things I work on...every time I get close to finishing the list new stuff just sorta winds up on it.

I'm also my harshest critic so I will probably end up being better than I give myself credit for. I like jam stuff and other improvisational forms of music for this reason as well...once its over its over, music of and for the moment, it starts to become more of a release of stress than a source of it. Its already out over and done with the second I play it and all I can do is listen back and think about what I did well and what I can do better next time.
 
#55
It wasn't important for me to become a virtuoso the level of a Victor Wooten, but it was important for me to develop a level of skill where I could competently play anything that was thrown at me or anything that I wrote. That's what it took for me to be happy with my playing.

These days I probably spend a little too much time on here and not enough woodshedding, but I still try to improve. I believe people should try to improve, but I also believe that music isn't a life or death issue, and the sun will still come up if someone decides that they learned enough to be happy playing music. So have fun at your own speed.
 
#59
I play for enjoyment - but I also enjoy listening to players who are virtuosic - it's like the highest expression of the art form or simply - look what you can do with this!! :eek:

I feel that the better you get the more you enjoy it and the more you understand about all the great music that's out there!

So I never really "got" Jazz until I tried to play it and now I love listening to it and going to gigs etc - can't get enough! :)

I know I'll never be a virtuoso or even good enough to be in an orchestra - but I know that when I see the Berlin Philharmonic tonight, playing some impossibly virtuosic music - then I will enjoy it all the more as I know a tiny bit about what it takes to do that!! :)
 
#60
I play for enjoyment, and because I love hearing other people play. It's cool to play bass, because everyone wants someone to accompany them - a bass can play with almost anyone! My goals are to be the best accompanist (sp?) that I can be, easy to play with, adaptable, flexible etc. I also want the best possible tone. A beautifully played bass note really speaks to me, I like sustain and rich warm mellow sound more than speed. I admire virtually every style of bass playing though, and have a great deal of fun emulating people way better than myself.

When I started, about a year and a half ago, I never thought I'd get remotely good enough to try out to play with anyone, but actually, looks like I have regular playing partners and may try to start a small jazz ensemble at work - just for fun. I'll never be a virtuoso (at any instrument), but I want to keep improving and bettering myself, just the same.

So much to learn, all of it is fun.
 

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