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Playing in a big band

Hi !

I'm playing the bass in a big band, I would like to know how you work the tunes.
Everything is written, sometimes lines are not so logical or comfortable that's why I play again my five string bass in order to make the fingering easier (not a question of range).
I find it difficult, do you write an extra page with chord symbols (some scores don't have chord notations) ?
How do you manage it ?
 
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Many bass parts/charts are written by non-bass players so they’ll sound & finger rather weird.

Search the net for a recording of that chart & see if your ear can learn to like that arrangement.

If not, Try to get the guitar chord chart and refer to it to tweak sections of the bass chart (where it suits). Either write in the chords above the bass line, or notate your own line and literally tape it over that section of the original.

Other option is to trust your ear and change the occasional note to fit your fingering, add repeated notes or passing notes, etc.
 
Quote: “I'm playing the bass in a big band, I would like to know how you work the tunes.”


With respect, I think its helpful to stand back a little and try to appreciate the bigger picture.

Traditional Big Bands featuring brilliantly scored notation by scintillating musical arrangers, will often require exacting, carefully written parts, are followed prto the letter.

Some Big Bands performing modern music feature a core rhythm section. That being fundamental to the musical drive and feel of modern musical styles. So, I think you should determine what “style” of Big Band you are in?

Musical Directors usually give rhythm section musicians in the latter case, a great deal more latitude in determining precisely what they play, as long as it supplies the necessary impact, style and the ideal rhythmic feel that the rest of the Big Band lay their parts on top of.

In the former case, with a traditional Big Band performing familiar “standards”, hopefully with excellent parts that fit together superbly providing immense musical impact, but in a completely different style, its essential to be able to read and have the notation down pat and delivered musically exactly as written.

Of course, its entirely possible that in a versatile Big Band both types of music and their concomitant arrangements do indeed come into play. So, then its necessary to approach each individual piece of music in the style that the arrangement requires.


Typically, the main programs musical arrangers use churn out individual parts from the full score.

It might be worth asking if as well as your own part, you could have an extra copy of the guitarists chord chart which would involve very little effort on the part of the Band Leader, but would give in both cases a precise guide for you to easily determine where the music is going harmonically in both cases. It would clear up any seeming anomalies that you were questioning quite easily.


My personal approach as a Musical Director is always at first to score a basic arrangement (Vocal, Piano, Bass, Drums, Guitar Chords) which is in reality an over view of the “idea of the song and its presentation”.

This will provide tempo, dynamics, musical style and emotional feel information along with written notes detailing any special musical interventions or features.

But essentially, it’s the basic idea of the song, its musical arrangement and presentation.


How I think about composing, is that the most important element it the actual “idea” of the song or music.

What is the concept? What is it really about? What is its driving force? What is the emotion to be movingly communicated to the audience?

If the composer has a very clear idea of these matters, then I think of that concept as being the top of a mountain. Every other detail of choice, in music, lyrics, musical orchestration and style; streams outwardly in an entirely clear and logical way once you have properly grasped the “mountain top vision”.


So, a basic Vocal, Piano, Bass, Drums, Guitar Chord arrangement is very helpful in clarifying the songs overall “vision”.

It makes preparing a full score which often features 32 staves much easier, making many complexly detailed aspects of when various instruments and different sections need to come in straightforward.


That doesn’t mean a rhythm section will be required throughout an entire song, such parts could be liked to a dummy guide vocal track on a recording which will later be replaced completely by more complex orchestration.

However, for most music that is the musicians daily fare, a basic “rhythm section” score can usually provide what is mostly required.

If excellent musicians are involved usually their superb range of musical chops provide more than most arrangers could write for.

The musicians actively enjoy the headroom of creative musical freedom they are provided and reward the project accordingly.


So, I hope this is all something helpful for you to think about and maybe to diplomatically and intelligently discuss with your Band Leader.

Fostering good working relationships is important and mutually beneficial to all parties, if they are open to improving.

But as long a you have a copy of the guitar chart for reference, you should be able to find a good working solution for any problem areas that might arise.

I have found that musicians strongly moan to me about other musical arrangers and orchestrators. What they seem to appreciate is that I work very hard indeed to make their job as easy as possible.

Everything is clear and straightforward for them and so they can do the best they are capable of, which is really what they want to do. Its just about providing the right framework for them to perform at their best.

I studied Bass with Carol Kaye and have a lot of Basses so that I can write for the Bass and talk to Bass Players understanding the instrument from their perspective. To me this is fundamental to being a good Musical Director and Arranger. I take a similar approach to every instrument of the orchestra.

Good Luck!
 
Many bass parts/charts are written by non-bass players so they’ll sound & finger rather weird.

Search the net for a recording of that chart & see if your ear can learn to like that arrangement.

If not, Try to get the guitar chord chart and refer to it to tweak sections of the bass chart (where it suits). Either write in the chords above the bass line, or notate your own line and literally tape it over that section of the original.

Other option is to trust your ear and change the occasional note to fit your fingering, add repeated notes or passing notes, etc.
Exactly this. Man, I've seen some effed up bass parts in my day. It was often quite clear that the part was written by a piano player once you try to play it on keys. But those don't translate well to the anatomy of upright or bass guitar at all.

When parts didn't make much sense, I would grab the chords off the keys or guitar part, and it would often be illuminating what the arranger was going for. Grasping a part intellectually, analysing it in context of the bigger picture, helps me tremendously in playing even the most complicated parts. Not so much so when I have no idea what's going on.
 
Many bass parts/charts are written by non-bass players so they’ll sound & finger rather weird.

Search the net for a recording of that chart & see if your ear can learn to like that arrangement.

If not, Try to get the guitar chord chart and refer to it to tweak sections of the bass chart (where it suits). Either write in the chords above the bass line, or notate your own line and literally tape it over that section of the original.

Other option is to trust your ear and change the occasional note to fit your fingering, add repeated notes or passing notes, etc.
Thanks very much, it's basically what I do, I'm lucky to have a jazz background.
Unfortunately I've played in this band for a week, just two rehearsals : the first one the pianist and the guitarist weren't there, the second one I was alone.
There is no conductor.

Quote: “I'm playing the bass in a big band, I would like to know how you work the tunes.”


With respect, I think its helpful to stand back a little and try to appreciate the bigger picture.

Traditional Big Bands featuring brilliantly scored notation by scintillating musical arrangers, will often require exacting, carefully written parts, are followed prto the letter.

Some Big Bands performing modern music feature a core rhythm section. That being fundamental to the musical drive and feel of modern musical styles. So, I think you should determine what “style” of Big Band you are in?

Musical Directors usually give rhythm section musicians in the latter case, a great deal more latitude in determining precisely what they play, as long as it supplies the necessary impact, style and the ideal rhythmic feel that the rest of the Big Band lay their parts on top of.

In the former case, with a traditional Big Band performing familiar “standards”, hopefully with excellent parts that fit together superbly providing immense musical impact, but in a completely different style, its essential to be able to read and have the notation down pat and delivered musically exactly as written.

Of course, its entirely possible that in a versatile Big Band both types of music and their concomitant arrangements do indeed come into play. So, then its necessary to approach each individual piece of music in the style that the arrangement requires.


Typically, the main programs musical arrangers use churn out individual parts from the full score.

It might be worth asking if as well as your own part, you could have an extra copy of the guitarists chord chart which would involve very little effort on the part of the Band Leader, but would give in both cases a precise guide for you to easily determine where the music is going harmonically in both cases. It would clear up any seeming anomalies that you were questioning quite easily.


My personal approach as a Musical Director is always at first to score a basic arrangement (Vocal, Piano, Bass, Drums, Guitar Chords) which is in reality an over view of the “idea of the song and its presentation”.

This will provide tempo, dynamics, musical style and emotional feel information along with written notes detailing any special musical interventions or features.

But essentially, it’s the basic idea of the song, its musical arrangement and presentation.


How I think about composing, is that the most important element it the actual “idea” of the song or music.

What is the concept? What is it really about? What is its driving force? What is the emotion to be movingly communicated to the audience?

If the composer has a very clear idea of these matters, then I think of that concept as being the top of a mountain. Every other detail of choice, in music, lyrics, musical orchestration and style; streams outwardly in an entirely clear and logical way once you have properly grasped the “mountain top vision”.


So, a basic Vocal, Piano, Bass, Drums, Guitar Chord arrangement is very helpful in clarifying the songs overall “vision”.

It makes preparing a full score which often features 32 staves much easier, making many complexly detailed aspects of when various instruments and different sections need to come in straightforward.


That doesn’t mean a rhythm section will be required throughout an entire song, such parts could be liked to a dummy guide vocal track on a recording which will later be replaced completely by more complex orchestration.

However, for most music that is the musicians daily fare, a basic “rhythm section” score can usually provide what is mostly required.

If excellent musicians are involved usually their superb range of musical chops provide more than most arrangers could write for.

The musicians actively enjoy the headroom of creative musical freedom they are provided and reward the project accordingly.


So, I hope this is all something helpful for you to think about and maybe to diplomatically and intelligently discuss with your Band Leader.

Fostering good working relationships is important and mutually beneficial to all parties, if they are open to improving.

But as long a you have a copy of the guitar chart for reference, you should be able to find a good working solution for any problem areas that might arise.

I have found that musicians strongly moan to me about other musical arrangers and orchestrators. What they seem to appreciate is that I work very hard indeed to make their job as easy as possible.

Everything is clear and straightforward for them and so they can do the best they are capable of, which is really what they want to do. Its just about providing the right framework for them to perform at their best.

I studied Bass with Carol Kaye and have a lot of Basses so that I can write for the Bass and talk to Bass Players understanding the instrument from their perspective. To me this is fundamental to being a good Musical Director and Arranger. I take a similar approach to every instrument of the orchestra.

Good Luck!
Thanks, I hope I will do better when everyone are there, like I said there was no guitarist and no pianist so I did the way I could.
Some don't know what a standard is even if they play and read well.
When I ask about the structure because the arrangements rarely respect the "original" form just few people understand what I mean.
Some tunes are well written but like I said it doesn't fit well for a bass playing even if I can, I'm pretty sure that basic double bassists would complain without playing the lines.
It's really new to me, a bit frustrating but it's exciting.
They buy arrangements on the net so they come the way they come.

I asked how the other bassist did, they said he worked a lot because he was a slow reader.
 
I find it difficult to play and manage paper at the same time. At home, I'll spread everything out in front of me, and work the thing until it is stone cold memorized. On the gig, I just play. No charts, no music stand, everything from memory. It's done all the time with smaller ensembles regardless of genre, adding some horns doesn't change how I approach things.
 
I find it difficult to play and manage paper at the same time. At home, I'll spread everything out in front of me, and work the thing until it is stone cold memorized. On the gig, I just play. No charts, no music stand, everything from memory. It's done all the time with smaller ensembles regardless of genre, adding some horns doesn't change how I approach things.
Hum it works when you play tunes like if you were jamming, a big band is not like you said "adding some horns", it's sometimes like orchestral music with extra parts, various introductions, interludes and codas.
It's the most difficult thing to manage to me.
It is not only playing walking basses, sometimes their written bass lines are not well written or are just irrelevant.
The easier part is when someone is soloing, it's like you said only if you play your personal lines.
Nobody wants to solo on a looper.
 
I don't play big band, don't really have a desire to, but it might be fun if the opportunity presented itself. I prefer a small band, 4 piece or less. Sure, there is pressure to fill out the sound but there is a tremendous amount of latitude in how you play a particular piece. The bigger the band, the more precise the arrangement has to be, in order for everyone to have their sonic space. You said all the parts are written for you but there is no director or conductor. If you find a piece that doesn't work well for the bass and you are having trouble working it out, you either need to simplify it (staying in your space) or work it out with the band leader or the instrument whose space you are about to intrude upon.

If the bass is buried and you want to stand out, I get it, but you don't want to bury or negate another instrument.
 
I learned to play bass bluffing my way into the jazz band section of the regional university summer junior high jazz band section. I had a few years of private piano lessons, so I knew bass clef. I had a Sears electric guitar, so I knew how a neck and frets worked. I played a horn in school band so I knew my scales and some other music theory. It takes all of that and more to properly support a big band. Study your music theory. Listen to the recordings to get the style. Stay on top of things with the drummer. Practice, practice, practice. Since these are written charts, learning to read and becoming familiar with the fundamentals of the double bass Simandl method is helpful, starting with 1/2 position playing in flats keys to help with the transitions.
 
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[...] It might be worth asking if as well as your own part, you could have an extra copy of the guitarists chord chart which would involve very little effort on the part of the Band Leader, but would give in both cases a precise guide for you to easily determine where the music is going harmonically in both cases. It would clear up any seeming anomalies that you were questioning quite easily.[...]
i'd go a step further. Rather than use this to map your comfort zone onto the bass line, use it to analyse how a different arranger has approached it and learn from it. Maybe you'll not agree with every choice, but it should give you a much broader appreciation of the lines in context. This is a great learning opportunity :thumbsup:
 
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Hum it works when you play tunes like if you were jamming, a big band is not like you said "adding some horns", it's sometimes like orchestral music with extra parts, various introductions, interludes and codas.

A musical part is a musical part. This year, I also played with an orchestra (and a choir on the same gig). Having a part memorized is not “like you’re jamming”, it’s doing your homework and knowing your part cold. That is never a disadvantage, no matter the context.
 
Hi !

I'm playing the bass in a big band, I would like to know how you work the tunes.
Everything is written, sometimes lines are not so logical or comfortable that's why I play again my five string bass in order to make the fingering easier (not a question of range).
I find it difficult, do you write an extra page with chord symbols (some scores don't have chord notations) ?
How do you manage it ?

I have the charts loaded on my iPad Pro 12” (full page size) using the Forscore app. I turn the pages with an AirTurn blue tooth pedal. I have a Manus holder, and adjustable iPad/Tablet stand for it. Yeah, it was a bit of an investment but 6 years later, they are the right tools for the job. You will never fear playing outdoors on a windy day again.

The Forscore app allows for cataloging charts, setting up set lists in order, annotation and other features. You can just download the pdfs, or scan them in.
 
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